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Bill: Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)

Details

Submitted by[?]: Commonwealth Workers Army

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: June 2175

Description[?]:

Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda: Destroy the evil of autocracy. Destroy the evil of fundamental ownership of self, being infringed.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date00:57:48, January 22, 2006 CET
FromProletariat Revolution Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageOn compassionate rational grounds, we feel that while the woman has the right to choose, by the end of the second trimester, the fetus has the greatest chance of survival outside of her womb, and because its vital organs are developed and it is no longer strictly in a stem-cell stage, that at such a point, the woman should simply birth this child and keep it or put it up for adoption. Before then when the risk is greater and life is still sketchy, we support such motions. But because this is a point at which life is more conceivable (no pun intended), we should provide some level of protection.

Our official stance: Full rights to abortion in the first trimester. We support it in the second, but near the end, we find ourselves a touchy weary about it simply because this life form is entering an intermediate stage of physical development.

But, we will support this should our previous one fail, as we feel that women have the right to choose.

Date18:42:46, January 22, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageThe official AMA position, is that women should DEFINITELY have first-trimester rights, and the second trimester is a little hazy. We do not actually support third trimester 'per se', but we are proposing the MOST free form of abortion legislation we can.

Our reasoning being, it is better to have the option AVAILABLE, and allow the woman to decide for herself, than to have NO options available.

We suspect that most women, pregnant in their second trimester, will decide that they are 'going to keep it' anyway. We suspect that MOST women in their thrid trimester would not even THINK of aborting, except on purely medical grounds.

So - here we err on the side of MAXIMUM choice for the woman.

Date11:34:36, January 23, 2006 CET
FromRight Wing Liberals Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageNo.

Date14:46:27, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageWe agree with the honorable member from the RWLP, no. This measure goes way too far in the wrong direction.

Date17:08:31, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageOnce again, the Anakrousite faction stands in awe of what some consider 'libertarian'...

Date17:15:54, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageIn no way can we justify the murder of a viable human organism as libertarian.

Date17:30:17, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageAnd yet, you can justify using the female of the species as nothing more than an incubator, as libertarian?

The female citizen has 'rights'. The conceptus is not a citizen, and has no rights.

If an individual chooses to impose the alleged 'rights' of a blob of material, effectively undistinguishable from a cancer, OVER those of a member of his/her society, that is not 'libertarian'.

Date18:03:17, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageThat arguement could fly for the conceptus before the age of viability, but in a post viabile stage it is unjustifiable to deny its humanity just due to its domicile within the womb.

Date18:23:47, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageAnd yet, the RLP argues that THIS legislation goes "way too far, in the WRONG direction".

RLP must, therefore, wish to tighten restriction FURTHER than the current 'first trimester' rule, no?


Secondly - how is it 'unjustifiable' to deny the foetus humanity? Throughout history, the mark of humanity has moved with cultures... some have argued that a 'child' was not a 'child' until it first took breath (OOC: Old Testament Jewish belief, based on the 'breath of life' in Genesis)...

Cultures allow 'cut-off' points. We allow 'death' as a cut-off. We allow puberty as a 'cut-off'. We have a whole load of totally arbitray 'cut-offs'... like school-leaving age, age at which one can vote, age at which sex is legal, age at which you can fight/die for your state, age at which you can drive.

Where ever a culture decides to impose it's 'cut-off' on the start of 'humanity', it is 'justifiable'.

Date18:34:02, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageTrue, and other cultures have defined humanity as being defined by race, religion, or skin color. We of the RLP would feel these would be unjustifiable as well. Justification is not historical, it is based on JUSTICE!

Date18:37:32, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageAnd JUSTICE (just like 'justice') is determined within a culture BY that culture.

The RLP is picking an arbitrary form of 'justice' to argue as though it were more universal or valid than any other.

Date18:47:17, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageNot more universal; just the one we feel it is necessary to support.

Date18:58:19, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageThus, the RLP admits that it is entirely subjective.

Therefore - you oppose a woman's right to choose, purely because you wish to?

Date19:12:37, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageCorrect, just as we oppose a lynch mob's right to hang people based on skin color, purely because we wish to.

Date19:15:57, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageWhich would be a viable comparison, if the lynch mob were hanging people based on skin colour, AND those people being hanged were parasitically living WITHIN another individuals body, despite that person's wishes to the contrary.

Date19:20:23, January 23, 2006 CET
FromAM Radical Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageIt was believed that they were parasitically living WITHIN the body of that society, despite that society's wishes to the contrary. Did that give the society the right to kill them? We think not, but others may differ.

Date19:27:18, January 23, 2006 CET
FromProletariat Revolution Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageDEspite that we are pro-choice, we are voting against this on scientific grounds on the principle that this goes a little too far.

Date19:35:01, January 23, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageWe are not discussing 'living within the body of society'.... we are talking about the very real and literal invasion of one person's body, by another entity.

If it were a virus, a bacterium, any of hundreds of types of microorganism... such an invasion would INSTANTLY be sanctified by all.

It is only because this particular 'entity' spawns when an ovum is 'infected' with spermatozoa, that we make special exception.

Date20:54:41, January 23, 2006 CET
FromConservative Liberal Party
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageDisgusting, you cannot compare another human to a disease.

Date23:42:42, January 24, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageYou cannot, perhaps. However, I have met people who really did not want to be pregnant, and were filled with 'Aliens-movie' type revulsion at the concept of another entity growing within the heart of their bodies.

On the other hand... why is a foetus NOT comparable to a disease? It feeds parasitically on the body, using the hosts resources to increase it's presence. If it didn't have 'human' DNA, we'd medicate that condition.

Date13:00:24, January 25, 2006 CET
FromLikaton Fascist Front
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageSurely a fundamental distinction can be made here that a foetus is essentially for the purpose of propogating the species, whereas a bacteria is propogation of an entirely different entity.

Date14:37:39, January 25, 2006 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Axis Mundi Anakrousite Agenda (ix)
MessageWhich MIGHT be relevent, if ToTAL and Likaton Front both condone cloning, for example. If not... if those parties are not willing to support ANY avenue to species propogation, then the propogational characteristics of the foetus are irrelevent.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
  

Total Seats: 175

no
        

Total Seats: 325

abstain

    Total Seats: 0


    Random fact: The majority of nations in Particracy are "Culturally Protected" with an established cultural background. Only the "Culturally Open" nations are not bound by the rules surrounding culture. The Cultural Protocols Index should be consulted for more information about the cultural situation of each nation.

    Random quote: "Politics is the entertainment industry for ugly people." - Mark Turpin

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