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Bill: Revision of Torture
Details
Submitted by[?]: Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 4003
Description[?]:
| If torture is never allowed we will appear weak in the eyes of our enemies if we can't even have it as an option, what happens when a terrorist group attacks lodamun and somehow kills thousands, and threatens to kill thousands more. Then somehow we catch a member or two, but, opps we can't torture him because it's socially considered "evil" or even "backwards". These members won't give up any other remaining member, with out a little "motivation" even if only a little bit. So I at least ask you to rethink it and look at it as if this happened and what if it was your family's that were killed or threatened to be. Wouldn't you want to at least have this as an last resort option. James Lodamun PLUP President |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The use of torture for obtaining information.
Old value:: Torture is never allowed.
Current: Torture is never allowed.
Proposed: Suspects can only be tortured under grave emergencies where the information is vital.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:23:24, March 22, 2016 CET | From | National Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr Speaker, We support this amendment of the torture law. The international parties rammed through this reform as part of a greater package to rob the peace officers of their ability to keep us safe. Who knows what foreign powers ordered them to do this? Misheck Gotti NLP Chairman |
| Date | 10:45:01, March 22, 2016 CET | From | Libertarian Solidarity | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, torture is inhumane and, more importantly, it doesn't seem to provide any actual information as the tortured will simply tell you whatever you want to hear. I would also like to ask the irrelevant NLA to skip their absurd conspiracy theories. It really doesn't move the debate anywhere. We are willing to engage in an informed discussion on the topic of torture, however the fabricated accusations make it more difficult for us to even want to try. Cecil W. Monroe, Chair of Libertarian Solidarity |
| Date | 11:39:36, March 22, 2016 CET | From | National Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr Speaker, If you are not serving the foreign powers by weakening security laws in the GDR, then whom are you serving? Your assertions about torture being inhumane or useless are merely subjective, there is proof or reason for anyone to agree with these absurd pro-criminal assertions. If so, we would have to ask, would a reasonable person be a member of the LS in the first place before we regard if anything coming out of the LS is reasonable at all. We wish to warn the Presidium to beware of the tactics of the international parties who appear to be acting out of concern for the Lodamese people but are much more likely to be serving the interests of foreign powers, unwittingly perhaps, which would love to see anarchy redevelop in Lodamun. Misheck Gotti NLP Internal Affairs Spokesman |
| Date | 15:27:55, March 22, 2016 CET | From | National Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | * there is no proof or reason... |
| Date | 20:33:48, March 22, 2016 CET | From | Libertarian Solidarity | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, we are serving fundamental human rights which the NLA seems not to care about. Which is sad. There is, likewise, no proof or reason to agree that torture is helpful in any way. All human beings should have the same rights, no matter what their nationality. And nobody deserves to be tortured, criminal or not. We don't see how torture could prevent crime or terrorism, in the first place. T. William Lascelles, Minister of Internal Affairs |
| Date | 20:34:09, March 22, 2016 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Alot of subjects don't get tortured, as half of the actual torture is in the mind. Torture is threatened, but alot of times that's is far as it goes; no body wants to be tortured, however it is the hardcore few that are willing to call the bluffs that have bad things happen to them. I agree it is inhumane and I do not like to make others suffer as I have said time and time again. But we shouldn't limit our powers. That is how really won't have to torture anyone, if the "badguys" fear us and they know we aren't afraid of torturing them they will, almost willingly, line up at the door just to tell us their dirty little secrets James Lodamun PLUP President |
| Date | 22:28:11, March 22, 2016 CET | From | Libertarian Solidarity | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, first of all, I am happy for the sound argumentation of the PLUP. I understand that the motivation here is fear which is supposed to make the "bad guys" do our bidding. However, I'm afraid fear only strengthens hatred. If we deal with terrorist and dangerous individuals backed by dangerous organisations, we cannot count on rationality. And, last but not least, we shouldn't let ourselves become like our violent enemies if we are to actually succeed in a struggle against them. T. William Lascelles, Minister of Internal Affairs |
| Date | 00:23:55, March 23, 2016 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | If you pour water on a fire it will snuff it out, but if the fire is hot enough it will use it as fuel, by separating the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. If you fight fire with fire they will burn each other out. The point I'm trying to make here is if their "fire" is hot enough, being nice and treating said terrorist as a human being will only serve to make them feel stronger, therefore taking the upper hand. But if we can show these guys that we don't mind getting our hands dirty too. We will actually be alot more successful in dealing with them not the other way around. It is not totally true that it brings no results, just maybe not the optimal results. Where everyone gets what they want and nobody gets hurt, but such is life, you can't please everyone. And we realize that these kinds of people aren't going to be rational, which is why you cant, and shouldn't treat them as if they were. Rational people aren't going to be tortured, rational people won't create a reason that might make them the target of the government. Rational people aren't going to do these types of things to introduce mass panic. However, we do understand the position that the LS takes. Kristof Peters PLUP Justice Specialist |
| Date | 14:51:29, March 24, 2016 CET | From |  Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Revision of Torture |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, My party was heavily divided on this issue. After a series of meetings, we decided to vote so that the Presidium itself would reflect division on the issue. This means that we voted on the side that was expected to get less votes, so that the vote would be as close as possible. Also, we wanted to support our coalition partners. -- Joshua Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 250 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 257 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 92 |
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