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Bill: Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Alleanza Radicale - NCD
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 4144
Description[?]:
| Claudio De Michelis: "Mr President, Hon. members of the Government and of the Parliament, I have to informe you of a situation that is about to be establish regarding Solentia. Solentia, our ally, is about to ratifay a treaty with Saridan, where the ultraconservative government are establishing a segregation regime. The treaty represent a military and trade treaty. What that most concern us, is the military part, which will provides the share between Solentia and Saridan of military and intelligence information. Given the share between Istalia and Solentia of the same kind of info, for us It's simply inacceptable and already I asked clarification to the Solentian Government. This is a threat to our national security! We cannot ignore all this! Thank you." |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:06:53, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Claudio De Michelis: "here the exchanges of messages with Solentia: ISTALIA Mr Minister of Foreign Affairs of Solentia, My nation demands clarification about this: http://classic.particracy.net/viewtreaty.php?treatyid=3535 Soletia, ally of my nation, are establishing a treaty with Saridan? A treaty that will provides the exchanges of info of the intelligence and other military and trade exchange. For us, you Ally, is simply inacceptable. We can not allow that our intelligence and military informations and provisions, share with Solentia, will be shared also with Saridan. It's simply inacceptable! We pretend explaination about it. Thank you. Claudio De Michelis, Minister if SOLENTIA To the most honorable Claudio De Michelis, Thank you for showing your concern. As it is right now, Solentia does not have many friends in this world. We are branching out and expanding our horizons. Saridan is a nation that was eager to become our friend. Your concerns about intelligence are understood. I can promise you that no intelligence from your nation will end up in the hands of Saridan, that I can promise. You have been a worthy ally and friend of Solentia. I pray that this continues. Sincerely, John "Johnny" Carter, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Solentia ISTALIA Mr Carter, thank you for your fast response. We understand the aim of Solentia to expand its international relationships and until this year we didn't have concerns about this treaty. But in this moment in Saridan the current government are establishing a segregational regime, after so many years of threat for all the civilized nations (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=493322), for us it's unacceptable that again Saridan is about to fall again in a regime similar to that of the Ameliorate Republic. And Istalia is debating in the Security Council about this situations and probably in the future we will obliged to re-establish sanctions against Saridan. But with this treaty, the future Solentian trade with Saridan could frustrate the incisiveness of the sanctions, because through Solentia our goods, services and funds (and also people) will be able to bypass the sanctions. It is also this that concern us. Thank you. Claudio De Michelis SOLENTIA Mr. Claudio, I know that this is a troubling time for us all. International entities should not interfere in the legislative process of Saridan, no matter how reactionary or troubling the proposal. Should you establish sanctions against Saridan, we will evaluate our relations with Saridan, although I can't guarantee anything at the moment. Sincerely, John "Johnny" Carter Minister of Foreign Affairs ========================== I would ask to the President to evalue the situation. Thank you. |
| Date | 16:22:55, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Claudio De Michelis: "Hon. President, Government and Parliament, we have to update you on the situation about Saridan, that seems to have menaced the nation of Telamonia of military act because Telamonia denounced the new introduced apartheid regime in Saridan: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497237 and http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497227. Telamonia asked the aid of the Security Council: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6914&p=108785#p108779 Given our position it was naturally respond in support of Telamonia: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6914&p=108785#p108785 after having accerted the situation. So, the minister of Foreign Affairs request to the Government and the Parliament the authorization in case of Saridanese attack to deploy one of its Air Naval Tactic Squad into the Telamonian waters with other units at support if Telamonia will ask international aid: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6913&p=108786#p108786 But Istalia have to facing also a problem with its ally Solentia: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497243 Solentia declared to be ready to stand alongside Saridan in case of war and given the previous statements about the treaty between Saridan and Solentia, the Minister of Foreign Affairs propose to temporarly repatriate all the istalian military forces currently in Solentia following the provisions of the ISDA. Thank you at all." |
| Date | 16:51:14, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | This is the message presented to the Saridanese government by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: "By the Istalian Government to the Saridanese Government: "the threat launched by Saridan http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497237 against Telamonia is a serious threat to the sovereignty of Telamonia that denounced Saridan with diplomatic action and do not acting with military way. Istalia as member of the security Council, given the request of Telamonia of aid viewtopic.php facing this threat, being a weaker nation than you, cannot stand aside and in silence. As our ambassador to the security council declared (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6913&p=108786#p108786) if my Government and my Parliament will give their support to the proposals, Istalia will be ready to deployed naval support in the water of Telamonia if the local government will request aid and we are ready to face any possible military threat by Saridan against Telamon (and we are not sure that Saridan will be able to persue an occupation, but also commando assoult to sensible objective in Telamonia we think could represent a war declaration for Telamonia), and we are perfectly able to face it (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7077). My Government invite the Saridanese Government to retire this menace and bring back this international problem on the diplomatic side. because if Saridan will take military action against Telamonia, Istalia could assure to Saridan that not only my nation will take sides of Telamonia. Saridan is ready to face an open military conflict on global scale? The Ameliorate regime will fall bacause trade sanctions, do you believe that the current saridanese government will be able to survive to a military international actions? We're not threatening Saridan, we are inviting it to withdraw from this proposal of military action. Think about that for the good of your people. Thank you Claudio De Michelis, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Istalia" We have to push because Saridan bring back on the diplomatic way the resolution of this crisis. We can stand aside when a weak nation ask for aid. I hope all the Istalian Political forces will be ready to support Telamonia. For the moment we continue to ask to repatriate our forces from Saridan and to authorize, if necessary, a deployement in the Telamonian territorial water of our aero naval forces. Thank you |
| Date | 17:34:41, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Partito dei Democratici Istaliani | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Mario Giuliotti, Leader of DI-U.o.L.: "This is a very difficult situation but the military intervent must be avoided. DI-U.o.L. is convinced that we can intervene only if there is a war and not before it starts because the war must be prevented, and not provoked. So we have to try to reason with Saridan to convince them that the war isn't the best choice for the country. We think that Solentia can't be in our alliance if they become friend with Saridan in this moment. I propose to interrupt (until they leave Saridan alliance) the Istalian Solentian Defensive Alliance and the partecipation in the relative organization by Istalian parties." |
| Date | 17:42:01, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | communication with Saridan: SARIDAN: To the government of istalia. We have tried repeatedly to stop this conflict with diplomacy, however we did not even start this trouble. Telamonia has been meddling in our country's affairs, telling us what we can and cannot legislate, they then started an international smear campaign against our country, you must know that this behaviour is unacceptable surely? We have not interfered in any other nations affairs. If other country's don't like us, they can leave us alone, that's all we want. Don't be a shill for Telamonia without knowing the full story. ISTALIA Dear collegue of Saridan, simply an international diplomatic act is not like a military act! And no, do not work in this way! The Ameliorate Republic of Saridan fallen thanks the international reaction against their crimes. We support the denouncing of the violation of the most foundamental rights of all the people all over the world, without concern about nations and governments. The force of the army is not necessary to make fall regime and society, it needs only international isolation and condamnations. Nothing avoid to a nation to condamns the behavior of other nations, nothing! There are not saridanese people, istalian people or Telamonian people, no! They are all men, equals and charged of the same rights all over the world, and also the most important principle of the biggest religion of the world declared that all the men are equal and created at immage of God the Creator. Religion teachings as well as, more important, international declaration do not make difference between citizens of this nation or that nation. There are no border to defend the people from the oppressions. Do you talk about separated evoluation and life for your citizen, it isn't? History is littered with these "noble intentions" to give to eachone their segregated possibility of evoluation, but the History teachs also that they are just excuses to justify the dominance of an ethnicity on others. They are just excuses to justify the dominant ethnicity to be able to conduct their affairs without the interference of the oppressed ethnicity and keep them away from the richness and best possibilities, so that it can be captured by dominant ethnicity. The history teachs! Do you want bring back to the diplomatic way this problems? Retire immediatly your military threat against Telamonia and then you could be able to conduct diplomatic relations, and we invite you to speak in the General Assembly of the World Congress. Thank you for you time. Claudio De Michelis, Foreign Affairs Minister of Istalia |
| Date | 17:43:52, December 19, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Claudio De Michelis: Mr President, an intervention it was supposed only if Saridan attack first Telamonia and Telamonia ask for an aid. We want refuse to aid a more weak and helpless nation? And I'm doing the best to maintain the situation on the diplomatic stage. Only a little pression to push the Saridanese Government to bring back on their path. |
| Date | 04:07:37, December 20, 2016 CET | From | SUN | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | The Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Democratic Republic of Solentia have issued a yellow alert, and have increased the readiness of armed forces, State Police and security along the Solentian-Istalian border. |
| Date | 10:27:49, December 20, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | RESPONSE OF THE SARIDANESE GOVERNMENT TO OUR LAST MESSAGES (PASTE HERE BEFORE THE LAST MESSAGES OF THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS) SARIDAN The reason this has become a big deal, is that my party didn't even propose the segregation bill, other nations who were meddling in our business assumed that I did without even knowing the facts, and then proceeded an international smear campaign against my whole country. You must know that we tried explaining this to the government of Telamonia, but they were not interested in the facts, and looked for a reason to smear our country. So I'm not sure why I'm being lectured by everyone about racism, when I didn't even propose the segregation bill. - Dewald Liebenberg (President). ISTALIA Mr President, as explained to your Minister of Foreign Affairs, I invite Saridan to retire the military menaces against Telamonia and to come in the General Assembly of the World Congress to explain your position. But, in effect, in Saridan this recent bill http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=496928 introduced form of ethnic segregation. And given the past recent history of saridan, there are many risk that the segregation will interest the ex slaves and the ex low classes discriminated people. But we would demand you why the needs of ethnic separations? Why? As said, the history showed us what represented the segregation and the apartheid, and we have dubt that in Saridan the same things of the past will not occurs. Thank you. SARIDAN Ok like I've said, I didn't propose the segregation bill, another party did, I do not have control over what the parties of my country propose as legislation, what they propose, is what they propose, it's not my party. We will think about withdrawing military action, but we need to discuss this with the other parties of our nation. We hope things don't come to blows, but the smear campaign against our nation must stop, much of what you are hearing from Telamonia are malicious lies. We will get back to you shortly with our final decision. - Dewald Liebenberg (President). ISTALIA Mr President, your party supported the introduction of this kind of legislation! The Alt-right voted yes! There always conseguences about this kind of choice. I think that for the good of Saridan and for the future relationships of your nation with the world, the best think to do is to reppeal these legislation. Thank you, we wait for your update (OOC: it's the "bad part" of the RP, we are not playing alone and as in the real world, internal national decision have always also international conseguences). SARIDAN We have made the decision to withdraw military activity, however we have conditions, firstly we want sanctions to be lifted, and we want the smear campaign to end, we want our country to have the freedom to make our own laws without interference from other nations. If we can agree to this, we will withdraw. - Dewald Liebenberg. ISTALIA Mr President, please, say me this: what Istalia or the World Congress have to do? We have to establish a worldwide censorship? If you want partecipe to the international stage, it's not possible to do what that your are requesting now. Do you want continue? So, do not be suprised if other nations take measures to stop any relations with you. You have responded with a military action to verbal condamnation, from a nation that have not military capabilities to reach your shores! What do you want to do? Menace military actions against each nation take internal measures to limit the relations with you? And say to me: the international community shall to protect your right to conduct your internal policy but we have to stop internal legislation of other nations if they will limit relationships with you? The world congress could also demand that the international treaties against you will be deleted, but then? We have to intervene to stop also the internal resolutions? You have the rights and you are free to threaten other nations with the threat of military actions but the entire world shall not have the right to condamn you for your racial policies? The smear campaign will continue with the support or not of the World Congress, because the world is full of nations that are simply horified by similar policies. And if the international smear campaign won't stop? If other nations will continue to adopt internal resolution to establish sanctions? What will you do? Do you want, as already ask above, start to threaten half world with military actions? Think very well at your request! You are requisting to not interfere in your internal affair proposing to the international community to interfere in the internal affairs of all other nations that want cut relations with you! Think very well to the paradox that your are asking to apply. Thank you Claudio De Michelis, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Istalia |
| Date | 12:10:29, December 20, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Our response here: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497243 "Mr Vice-Chairman, The "Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEAS!!!!!!)" it's a debate to maintain always informed the Parliament of the evolution of the crisis (OOC: the rest "RP SARIDANESE..." it's an RP message to the players, not to be assumed as part of the game). I'm only make my job as Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr Vice-Chairman. And we have not convince anyone! We have show this bill, all the parties in my nation can see how this bill is under vote. But at the same time all the parties of my nation can also see how most part of the parties of Solentia decided to support it. We are part with you of an alliance, a military alliance, not only a trade or economic relationship. I hope that the Government of Solentia understand that an alliance like that pose some responsabilities for both the part, especially in the international field. What we should to do? We had to ignore that our military ally is establishing a treaty with Saridan, a nation that caused the most important international crisis of the last decades? A nation with which Istalia has really tense and conflictual relationships! the most tense and conflictual relationships! We have all the right to be concerned about our national security cause your foreign policies, because we decided to share with Solentia the task of defending the interests, the soil and the citizens of our two nations, and also you accepted this! It's clear and obvious that a treaty that promote "the sharing of intelligence data between the two nations, this will ensure that both countries will be looking out for one another. This military cooperation also includes the defense of each nations homeland in a situation of war. Both nations if called upon for military aide by one another, must offer and deploy troops, equipment, and other aides that may be requested by one another, however each nation must not take advantage of any military aide offered" between our closer ally and Saridan, the nation with which Istalia have more tenstions in the last years, causes concerns for my Government. What do you want to do? Have the 'foot in two camps'? We are not understand why your Minister of Defence and your Minister of Foreign Affairs deployed military forces on the border between our two nations. When Istalia declared to want take actions against you to justify by your part a military deployement on our borders? We decide only to repatriate our military personnel in Solentia because in case of degeneration of the relations between us and Saridan, Solentia declared that it will be at the side of Saridan and how we could put in danger our men located in a nation that potentially will support military an Istalian enemy? We have no intention against Solentia, I never proposed to my nation to take action against Solentia. Never! Here, the only that did not consider minimally the implication of the military alliance between Solentia and Istalia was your minister of foreign affairs and your minister of defence! Such a treaty, as said, impose responsabilities on the foreign affairs: in an alliance it is assumed that members take into account the enmity and tensions that exist between its own allies and other nations, preferring and giving priority to its longtime ally rather than to a third country, and above all it is pretended that a government avoid to declare themselves ready to fight alongside the possible enemies of its allies. In an alliance is expected by the involved governments to be held in mind certain priorities, don't you think? The only that promoted a treaty with the nation with which its military ally have the most problematics relationships was you, not Istalia! The nation that declared to be ready to fight alongside Saridan was you, not Istalia! And it was prevedible from you that it was foreseeable that Istalia, as member of the Security Council and as one of the strenous defender of the human rights, they would be alongside of Telamonia and not of Saridan. I think that Solentia and its political forces should reflect on how the Foreign Minister has led your recent foreign policy, because to me seems that Mr Carter has totally forgotten that Solentia and Istalia are allies for long time and i think that when a nation conduct its foreign policies shall take account of the position and the policies of its military allies before than those of other nations. If Solentia consider not more useful for it continue the alliance with Istalia, we have only to say, but for respect, you shall first put end to the alliance and than graant military support to nation with which we have very high tensions and that risks to become our enemies. Thank you for the attention, now, I invite the Solentian government to reppeal your yellow alert and demobilize troops deployed on our borders, we don't want have problems with you, but if you do not demobilize your troops as soon as possible, we have to responde with the same mobilization. For showing to you our good intentions, we will not deploy in the next months our forces on our borders, we do not take any internal security actions, because we want demostrate that we do not want have any problem with Solentia. But I think that you decided to put an end to our relationship since long time and this bill: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497310 it's clear that is only a pretext to push to the end of this long alliance. We are very sorry to learn it! We had great project for the future of our alliance, especially in the field of industrial and infrastructure relationships now that Istalia established intense relationship also with Deltaria and Wantuni, but... evidently for you is better to establish relationships with one of the most shameful and condemned nation all over the world than maintain good rapports with us, a Nation that in less then a (in-game) months created a large international front to condamn and also, in case, to fight Saridan. Good luck for the future dear friends of Solentia. Claudio De Michelis, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Istalia" |
| Date | 17:38:09, December 20, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | AFTER TO HAVE SEND THIS MESSAGES TO OTHER POLITICAL PARTY IN SOLENTIA: I invite the other political forces of Solentia to read our response: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497161 why your minister of defence and of foreign affairs are acting in this way? When Istalia declared to want take action against Solentia? But it's obvious that as ally you could not ignore that Istalia and Saridan are in a situation of great tensions! A nation have to consider the foreign situation of its allies when conduct its foreign policies! And when you declared to be ready to fight alongside Saridan, what we had to do? Maintain our military personal in a nation ready to fight against the enemies of Solentia, including Istalia? Here, the only irresponsables was your foreign minister that conducted a foreign policy ignoring totally the alliance situation between our two nations! Do you want put an end to our alliance? Ok, we can respect it, but can not accept that when exist this alliance you made accord with one of our most reductable enemies! You shall know the Istalian position about the Human Rights and your foreign minister had to consider that! For you its not acceptable our behavior? Well, you had to informe us that for you the alliance it's not useful and then you would be able to condut your foreign policies without interference. I hope the other political forces will reflect about it. Thank you THE SOCIAL-DEMOCRATIC PARTY ARE ASKING THIS: Do other Istalian parties share the same point of view as you? RESPONSE: The Foreign Ministry acted always in line with the decision of the government and in respect of the presidential dispositions. |
| Date | 00:20:25, December 21, 2016 CET | From | SUN | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Minister, I must ask, what is the status of Istalian forces within the Republic of Solentia? And what is the status of Solentian forces within the boundaries of your nation? Yourself and the President have made it quite clear that you will break our alliance if we pass the treaty with Saridan. We have passed it and we must have official word. Sincerely, Paul Schrader Minister of Defence |
| Date | 00:26:41, December 21, 2016 CET | From | SUN | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Esteemed Minister, The yellow alert issued by the Ministry will remain in effect until we have confirmation of the Istalian government's intention. As you already know, our treaty enables our citizens to pass across our borders at liberty. We must know the status of foreign nationals within our boundaries. Until we have received confirmation from the government of Istalia that they wish to normalize relations with Solentia, the yellow alert will be lifted. Respectfully, William Broad Minister, Internal Affairs |
| Date | 10:15:35, December 21, 2016 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Communication of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: RP SARIDANESE AND SOLENTIAN CRISIS (!!!!!!READ PLEASE!!!!!!) |
| Message | Here the response of the Minister of Foreign Affairs to Solentia and to its Ministers of Defence, Foreign Affairs and Internal Affairs: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=497243 |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 374 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 261 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Head to the "Language assistance" thread to receive and offer help with translations: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6368 |
| Random quote: "What we are doing to the forests of the world is but a mirror reflection of what we are doing to ourselves and to one another." - Gandhi |