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Bill: Call for early elections, September 4180
Details
Submitted by[?]: Partito Moderato Centrodestra
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill requests an early election. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline. Elections will be held immediately if the bill passes.
Voting deadline: November 4181
Description[?]:
| We, the Patto per l'Istalia - U.o.L., call for early elections as soon as we can reach a consensus. Since the Libertarians has left the political scene. |
Proposals
Article 1
Arrange early elections as soon as this bill passes.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:21:21, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Lorenzo Verhoeven, Leader of PSLI: "early elections? What happens? Why Patto per l'Istalia are calling early elections?" |
| Date | 12:23:33, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | ***Most part of the press are asking explaination for this decision: "Patto per l'Istalia are retiring its support to the Government of Mr Mariani?" "Whay this decision? There are problems in the U.o.L.?" "Contrast for the re-centralization started by the current Government?" "What say the Head of Government about this?" "We are going to see a government Crisis? New election at horizon?"**** |
| Date | 12:30:06, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Movimento Federalista Istaliano - I.p.I. | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Also for the payto for l'Istralia the actual government are to centealizing |
| Date | 13:16:06, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | OCC: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=481875 Please, you have to introduce who are talking as required bt the rule 2.a of the RP Parliament Rules |
| Date | 15:12:33, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Partito Moderato Centrodestra | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Mr Speaker, Since the Libertarians have left parlaiment and government we should hold new elections. Enzo Scifo Leader of PpI |
| Date | 15:28:00, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Partito dei Democratici Istaliani | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Vincenzo Marini, Presidente della Repubblica Istaliana: "I think PpI wants to call an early election because the PLI has retired. But it isn't satisfactory, for two reasons: the first is that, as in the game rules (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=481875), now there isn't anymore the first article (where if a party dissolved and was "big" enough, all the parties had to vote for calling new elections) , so this proposal is null; the second is that, although those articles were still in rules, PLI didn't have 20% of the seats, and this would anyhow be null. Seen that, I ask to Patto per l'Istalia to explain this early elections proposal. If there is a government crisis, I will consider this proposal or a change in the government. Otherwise, the government will continue until regular elections." |
| Date | 15:46:28, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Partito Moderato Centrodestra | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | President, We have no functional government anymore. The Libertarians are gone and thus we, U.o.L hold no majority. In able to give the people who voted for the libertarians another chance to elect their new representatives. My party shall not govern with a minority government. Enzo Scifo Leader of PpI. |
| Date | 15:56:16, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | OOC: I really didn't notice the inactivation of PLI! :O |
| Date | 16:13:14, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Lorenzo Verhoeven: "We thank the President for its explaination, but I have a question: how this government could continue until regular elections? How will this government be able to conduct the national politics without a majority to support it into the Parliament? Doesn't the President want procede with early elections? In this case the PSLI officially demands to the President Marini to begin immediatly new consultations to verify the existence of someone able to form a new government and so who will be able to obtain the necessary majority and confiance into the Chamber. Thank you" |
| Date | 16:29:15, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | OOC: about the rules mentioned by DI and currently no longer in force, as Nationmaster I can use the Nationmaster prerogative to call early election but if the empty seats are above 20% of the total seats in the Parliament and PLI had only 14%. |
| Date | 17:19:03, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Partito dei Democratici Istaliani | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Vincenzo Marini, Presidente della Repubblica: "Seen that API coalition has the majority in the Chamber of Deputies, I officially start consultations. But I warn you that the new government will be short-lived, since we are in the middle of the term. Until the new cabinet will be proposed and approved by the Chamber, the existing will remain in charge to settle current matters." |
| Date | 18:28:30, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Lorenzo Verhoeven: "We thanks the President Marini and I'm sure the A.P.I. will be able to find the best solution to present you." |
| Date | 20:58:44, March 15, 2017 CET | From | Popolari per l'Istalia - U.o.L. | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Elide Ceglini,PPI-U.o.L: "Il PLI è scomparso senza comunicare nulla a U.o.L. Le tesi del PSLI sono infondate e maliziose, come al solito. Ora pretendiamo che si vada subito a nuove elezioni visto che la maggioranza votata dai cittadini non esiste più" "The PLI has disappeared without communicating anything to U.o.L. The thesis of PSLI are baseless and malicious, as usual. Now we pretend that you go now to new elections because the majority voted by the citizens no longer exists" |
| Date | 09:01:03, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Lorenzo Verhoeven: "Il PSLI non considera affatto troppo infondate e maliziose le sue tesi. Non solo il PSLI ma tutte le forze politiche hanno assistito a quel che abbiamo criticato: la mancanza di coordinazione e di programmi ben chiari tra i membri dell'UoL. Lo abbiamo visto con l'effimero Ddl del Ministro della Salute sull'Aborto, lo abbiamo visto con il Ddl sulla difesa che è stato poi smantellato e ridotto al solo articolo sui rifiugi, lo abbiamo visto tutti con i rattoppi dell'ultimo minuto alla riforma della scuola e della sanità sulla quale lo stesso PLI aveva espresso perplessità a seguito di nostri appelli alla Presidenza del Consiglio addirittura garantendoci che sarebbero stati presi i dovuti provvedimenti rettificativi, ed infine abbiamo visto tutti come è evoluto il voto sulla riorganizzazione delle imposte indirette, con ben 2 membri dell'UoL che votarono a favore per poi ritirare o cambiare il proprio voto, ciò immaginiamo dovuto a pressioni interne. Infine, le nostre tesi non si sono affatto discostate dalla realtà a seguito di conferme dallo stesso Mr Mariani. Non credo debba essere il PSLI a dover perdere il sonno se l'UoL arriva a scoraggiare i membri della sua stessa coalizione. Dato come sono stati presentati, ritirati e profondamente modificati, i vari Ddl (si parla di Ddl, non di Pdl dove vige la libertà di voto e di presentazione, ma Ddl, ovvero progetti di legge del Governo), ho una domanda per l'Onorevole Ceglini: alla luce del fatto che il Presidente del Consiglio è l'autorità ultima del Governo e ci si aspetta che venga consultato e che dia il via libera al resto dei membri del Consiglio dei Ministri poiché responsabile ultimo delle loro azioni, l'Onorevole Mariani ha dato il suo ok preventivo ad almeno uno dei progetti presentati in Aula? Almeno ad uno? Dato il veloce ritiro della proposta sull'aborto e quindi, come detto, gli interventi successivi deduciamo e ci sembra che la risposta sia proprio "no". Per evitare simili episodi la strada è semplice: presentare prima di tutto la proposta ai partiti di governo nel consenso della propria organizzazione e ricercare l'ok preventivo del Capo del Governo, apportare le modifiche proposte dai colleghi di Governo se necessario e quindi presentare Ddl sui quali non ci siano più dubbi e lanciarli al voto senza rischi e senza dover costringere successivamente altri membri della coalizione a presentare proposte di rettifica su alcuni punti. Questo credo proprio si intenda per D.d.l. e per programma di governo! Dunque, invece di cercare di insabbiare degli avvenimenti dai quali si comprendo tante cose, invitiamo soprattutto i colleghi del PPI a riflettere su cosa voglia dire governare insieme ad altri soggetti politici ed a come raggiungere un consenso condiviso frutto di mediazioni, dialoghi e compromessi che rappresentano il primissimo passo per rapportarsi e lavorare all'interno di una coalizione costituita da tante anime diverse. Questo, e so che peccherò per poca modestia, l'A.P.I. l'ha ben compreso e mi sembra proprio che sotto le nostre amministrazioni non si sia mai visto presentare ben 4 D.d.l. tra i più importanti del programma di governo presentati nei primissimi mesi per poi venire velocemente ritirati o pesantemente modificati e quand'anche ci sono stati Ddl controversi, abbiamo visto Presidenti del Consiglio e Ministri dimettersi per molto meno. E per concludere Onorevole Ceglini, credo infine che basti notare come questo episodio tra UoL e PLI sia estremamente simile a quello avvenuto tra UoL e PNI quando avete "tentato" di Governare insieme alcune decadi fa con accuse "stranamente" molto simili lanciate dell'allora premier Sabbatini. Detto ciò, io ed il mio partito non abbiamo più nulla da aggiungere né credo dobbiamo presentare ulteriori giustificazioni alle nostre tesi "infondate e maliziose", quindi, per passare alla proposta di elezioni anticipate: il Presidente della Repubblica ha già perfettamente espresso le sue intenzioni e cosa prevede la Costituzione, credo che ora più che continuare a lanciare accuse e critiche dietro le quali nascondersi, sia tempo per qualcuno di riflettere attentamente sul modo di rapportarsi e di lavorare insieme ad altri soggetti, accettando compromessi, anche sostanziosi, poiché la democrazia non funziona in base a chi riesce ad imporsi di più e con più forza, ma anche accettando i no e trovando altre soluzioni più condivisibili. Grazie" "The PSLI does not consider too unfounded and malicious its theses. Not only PSLI, but all the political forces have seen what we have criticized: the lack of coordination and clear programs among UoL members. We saw this with the ephemeral draft bill on Abortion of the Minister of Health, as well as we saw this with the draft bill on the defense which was later dismantled and reduced to a single article on Shelters, we have seen all this with the patches of last minute to school and health reform on which the PLI itself had expressed concern following our appeals to the Prime Minister even assuring us that he would be taken the necessary amending measures, and finally we saw all this seeing how has evolved the vote on the reorganization of indirect taxes, with even 2 members of UoL who first voted in favor and then withdrawn or changed their votes, and we imagine due to internal pressures. Finally, our theses was not too distant from reality as a result of confirmation by the same Mr. Mariani. I do not think it should be the PSLI having to lose sleep if UoL gets to discourage members of his own coalition. Given how they were presented, withdrawn or substantially modified, the various draft bill (talking about the Ddl, not the Pdl, where there is freedom to vote and presentation, but the Ddl, or bills of the Government), I have a question for ' Mrs Ceglini: in light of the fact that the Prime Minister as Head of Government is the ultimate figure of authority in the Government and is expected to be consulted, and to give the green light to the rest of the members of the Council of Ministers because he remain ultimately responsible for what the government does, has Honourable Mariani given his preventive ok at least to one of the projects presented in the Chamber? At least one? Given the rapid withdrawal of the proposal on abortion and then, as mentioned, the subsequent interventions we deduce, and it seems, that the answer is just "no". To avoid such incidents the road is simple:present first of all the proposal to the government parties in the consensus of your organization and search the preventive green light of the Head of the Government, make the changes proposed by the Government colleagues if necessary and then submit the D.d.l. on which there are no more doubts and launch them to vote without risks and without having force later other members of the coalition to submit rectification proposals on some points. This I think is meant when we talk about D.d.l. and government program! So, instead of trying to cover up the events from which we understand so many things, especially we invite colleagues in the PPI to reflect on what it means to govern together with other political parties and how to reach a consensus shared by the result of mediation, dialogue and compromise which represent the very first step to relate and work within a coalition made up of many different souls. This, and I know I will sin for little modesty, was well understood from A.P.I. and appears to me that under our government has never seen presenting 4 D.d.l. among the most important of the government program presented in the first few months and then come quickly withdrawn or heavily modified and even if there have been controversial draft bill, we saw Prime Ministers and Ministers resign for much less. And finally Honorable Ceglini finally believe that it is enough to note that this episode between UoL and PLI is very similar to what occurred between UoL and PNI when you have "tried" to govern together a few decades ago with allegations "strangely" very similar launched by the then premier Sabbatini. Said that, me and my party we have nothing to add nor do I think we no need to present further justification to our thesis "baseless and malicious", then, to pass the proposal of early elections: the President of the Republic has already perfectly expressed his intentions and what the Constitution provides, I believe that now more than keep throwing accusations and criticisms to hide behind, it's time for someone to think carefully about the way we relate and work together with other parties, accepting compromises, even substantial, because democracy It does not work based on who can establish itself more and more strongly, but also by accepting and finding no other more shareable solutions. Thank you"" |
| Date | 10:13:41, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Partito Moderato Centrodestra | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Mr.Verhoeven, You are ignoring 8million votes who casted their vite in the hope for a U.o.L Cabinet, NOT a API government. Therefore we should listen to those 8 million if they would rather see another U.o.L cabinet or API. Or is Mr Verhoeven so undemocratic? What do you have to loose if you think they would vote for you anyway? Another appeal for DI to accept new elections and not to ignore 8million people. Enzo scifo Leader of PpI |
| Date | 13:14:21, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Alleanza Radicale - NCD | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Lorenzo Veroheven: "Mr Scifo, me and the president are not imposing nothing, we simply are respecting the constitution. The API is only following the decision of the President. And about this vote, usually we always have waited for the passage of currently law under vote, but it is a practice so... Let's see the result of this vote." |
| Date | 13:30:39, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Partito Moderato Centrodestra | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | So we see now the true face of PSLI. Just ignoring 8million votes who wanted a centre right cabinet. The people of Istalia have the right to get what they voted for and they did NOT voted for centre left. I ask once again to DI not to ignore the previous results. We are asking new elections so that everyone, who has voted for the Libertarians, can choose wether or not they want a centre right or centre left coalition. |
| Date | 15:22:13, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Partito Ambientalista Socialista Istalia | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Viola Luzi, Whip of Verdi "Colleghi, i cittadini hanno già dovuto pagare i costi del vostro breve ma devastante governo, non costringeteli a pagare anche in termini economici il peso di nuove elezioni quando ci sono i margini per un governo che conduca la legislatura al termine. Per una sola volta pensate al bene della gente e non ai vostri affari, non è difficile. " "Colleagues, citizens have already had to pay the cost of your short but devastating government, not force them to pay even in economic terms the burden of new elections when there is room for a government that will lead the Legislature to an end. For once think of the good of the people and not your business, it is not difficult." |
| Date | 15:41:34, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Partito Moderato Centrodestra | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Mr Viola Luzi, Let the electorate decide wether or not this cabinet is or was a disaster. If you think you'll have the people on your side, then proof it. We only see how undemocratic the left is by ignoring 8million people who supports a a centre right cabinet. |
| Date | 17:04:34, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Partito dei Democratici Istaliani | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Francesco Giuliotti, Leader of DI-U.o.L.: "DI-U.o.L. will vote for this early elections proposal. Although the President has expressed his opinion on this, we won't follow that idea, because we think that we cannot change a government in a term from right to left coalition. We don't like it and we want to go to new elections." |
| Date | 17:25:48, March 16, 2017 CET | From | Popolari per l'Istalia - U.o.L. | To | Debating the Call for early elections, September 4180 |
| Message | Elide Ceglini, PPI-U.o.L.: "In un paese normale quando decadono i parlamentari dello stesso partito del Presidente del Consiglio si va immediatamente a nuove elezioni. Sinceramente troviamo assurdo il comportamento del Presidente Marini. Alla sinistra dico: non abbiate paura delle urne, lasciare il Parlamento sguarnito dopo dei fatti tanto gravi avrebbe il sapore del colpo di Stato" "In a normal country when decay MPs of the same party of the Prime Minister will go immediately to new elections. Honestly we find absurd the behavior of the President Marini. To the left I say: do not be afraid of the , leaving the parliament after unprotected of such serious facts would the flavor of the coup" |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 253 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 300 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: It is the collective responsibility of the players in a nation to ensure all currently binding RP laws are clearly outlined in an OOC reference bill in the "Bills under debate" section of the nation page. Confusion should not be created by displaying only some of the current RP laws or displaying RP laws which are no longer current. |
| Random quote: "You will win, but you will not convince. You will win, because you possess more than enough brute force, but you will not convince, because to convince means to persuade. And in order to persuade you would need what you lack, reason and right in the struggle." - Miguel de Unamuno |