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Bill: OOC: Discussion on Nobility
Details
Submitted by[?]: Legio Nationalis
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 4286
Description[?]:
Hey all, I think it's the consensus of most of the players here that their parties want to see the nobility brought back. I want to open up a discussion on how best that would be achieved, maintaining Selucian's Roman culture and traditions.
I was thinking, personally, to initially give five noble titles (equivalent to a duke or duchess) spread evenly between the five parties. One "duchy" would be one region,approx. BreakDownSoul, I know In Marea would probably reject it out of principle, and if any of the other parties would react the same, that's fine, but the offer will be made. The "duchies" will then be split among the players who want them, given a name more in line with Roman Patrician terms, of course. From there on, maybe the dukes could appoint the lesser nobility in their respective regions, but could be overridden by the Head of State, if they felt so inclined?
What are your thoughts?
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Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:52:25, August 06, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean. A "duchy" would be equivalent to a province, basically, if that's what you're asking |
| Date | 09:45:24, August 06, 2017 CET |
From | Clara Aurora - COSIRA | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | In Marea will refuse any suggestion about nobility, but I think that giving power in an entire region is way too much. I think it would fit better if they have power over citues and not regions |
| Date | 14:51:35, August 06, 2017 CET |
From | Clara Aurora - COSIRA | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I dont think so. If it's approved (I assume it will be) giving senators nobility titles would make 500 nobles every 4 years more or less... |
| Date | 22:34:35, August 06, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Fortuna | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I honestly wouldn't mind nobility as long as there are measures to check the powers of the nobles. Personally I think the best way to do this is through legislative powers, but this is my opinion, others may vary.
Also I believe I've found the answer to the "duke/duchess" thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dux |
| Date | 01:41:14, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Renatus Seluciana | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I agree with keeping the power of nobles in check legislatively, maybe through amending the constitution or something.
What other smaller titles should we have? |
| Date | 05:21:21, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I read that page, "Dux" in ancient Roman terms seems to have been more of a military rank than anything else, but what I think we're aiming for is more along the lines of civil administration with land and titles. The provincial governors seem to be more of what I was thinking, but the issue with that is traditionally it wasn't a hereditary office. We could change the function for our own purposes of course. They would still be under the supremacy of the federal government, but have jurisdiction where local governments are given authority. I think that could make for some interesting RP, with conflicts between the governors and the senate.
For smaller titles, the equites (knights, basically, iirc) we should definitely bring back, as well as local rulers of cities like Break was saying, have to do more research on that bit.
An idea that just struck me, and forgive me for this tangent, but this does relate to nobility somewhat. It regards bringing back the Imperator. The Roman emperors, if I recall correctly, were not guaranteed to be hereditary, and would have to be approved by the Senate in order to lead. I think it would be interesting to see an elective monarchy system, where the Head of State is elected for life (a lifespan that would probably have to be randomly generated before-hand so as to prevent one player hogging it too much), either by 2/3 of the Senate or in a single head of state popular election following the game mechanics. There would be a lot of quirks to iron out and checks put in place to prevent abuse, but I think it would make for interesting RP. I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there
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| Date | 05:21:29, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I read that page, "Dux" in ancient Roman terms seems to have been more of a military rank than anything else, but what I think we're aiming for is more along the lines of civil administration with land and titles. The provincial governors seem to be more of what I was thinking, but the issue with that is traditionally it wasn't a hereditary office. We could change the function for our own purposes of course. They would still be under the supremacy of the federal government, but have jurisdiction where local governments are given authority. I think that could make for some interesting RP, with conflicts between the governors and the senate.
For smaller titles, the equites (knights, basically, iirc) we should definitely bring back, as well as local rulers of cities like Break was saying, have to do more research on that bit.
An idea that just struck me, and forgive me for this tangent, but this does relate to nobility somewhat. It regards bringing back the Imperator. The Roman emperors, if I recall correctly, were not guaranteed to be hereditary, and would have to be approved by the Senate in order to lead. I think it would be interesting to see an elective monarchy system, where the Head of State is elected for life (a lifespan that would probably have to be randomly generated before-hand so as to prevent one player hogging it too much), either by 2/3 of the Senate or in a single head of state popular election following the game mechanics. There would be a lot of quirks to iron out and checks put in place to prevent abuse, but I think it would make for interesting RP. I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there
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| Date | 10:13:00, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Renatus Seluciana | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | So are we going to have the governors along with the dukes, each managing things, or are we going to have just dukes? We're fine with either. Having rulers of cities is also important, we could have the cities vote on the ruler, and the duke would have to pick one out of the few most voted for people. That's just an idea, though.
About the whole thing with bringing the Imperators back but having them elected, that is exactly what we want, so it would be cool if we could figure some sort of system out.
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| Date | 15:54:30, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | No, the "dukes" would be the governors. Less of a "duke" now, I'll admit, but still powerful officials with fancy titles. Might have to make them non-hereditary, if that's alright.
I'll work on a rough draft for some sort of Imperator system and you guys can take a look |
| Date | 15:57:00, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Clara Aurora - COSIRA | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | Im not a huge fan of monarchism in real life (lucky me I live in Spain hahaha), so Im not very neutral in that matter. I dont really find the utility of someone being elected for life, so I think if we choose to bring monarchy back, even an elective monarch, In Marea would be a fierce opposition
Also making regional governors hereditary or only availables for nobility would make regional governments almost always of the sane political ideologies, as traditionally nobility has been really conservative in terms of civil rights as they wouldnt want to lose privileges, and that's usually done by the left |
| Date | 16:30:22, August 07, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | We could have them appointed by the Head of State for defined terms, if that would be more to everyone's fancy. That would be more in line with Rome, anyway. |
| Date | 20:54:01, August 08, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Fortuna | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | For limited terms, just an idea, since our national elections take place every four years, appointments by the Head pf State can be made for a two year period. |
| Date | 20:58:57, August 08, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Fortuna | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | Though I'm not sure how we would get the Imperator 2/3rds status through because of how the elections work in this game. If there is a mechanic for election prevention, I don't know about it. |
| Date | 22:44:27, August 08, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | That feels too short to me. If the consensus is towards two year terms I'll submit, but I disagree. I don't want to make it a hassle to deal with. I also want to make it feel more "noble-esque", if that makes sense, without having it be actual nobility. |
| Date | 22:47:17, August 08, 2017 CET |
From | Legio Nationalis | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | In terms of electing Imperators, I was thinking a special bill would be made, where the candidates would be presented, and each party would reply with how they vote. The Head of State would be set to the "hereditary and symbolic" option (though not necessarily hereditary), and from there it would be as simple as changing the name to what won 2/3 of the votes. |
| Date | 04:26:53, August 09, 2017 CET |
From | Factio Fortuna | To | Debating the OOC: Discussion on Nobility | | Message | I saw in one of the other discussions a 10 year proposition. I wouldn't mind having the terms for 10 years. |
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