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Bill: P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II

Details

Submitted by[?]: Nuova Unione

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: May 4337

Description[?]:

Adriano Manfrin, ULD Speaker for Finance

Hon. Colleagues,

As you may know, we recently proposed the popular "Economic Justice" reform, which will likely pass, due to the wiseness of most of our deputies.
However, in this reform, that is an extension, yet also a standalone project, we want to propose a tax reform, we want to introduce the fairest tax system known to men, one that we have constructed: people with "usual" jobs, in a nutshell, will work under the regressive tax, in which they will pay a lower tax percentage more they gain; that will surely increase the number of rich people paying taxes, but they will still pay more than the poor, albeit a lower percentage, even though they pay less.
The poor will pay a higher percentage but, worry not, they won't really feel a difference, and, if they will it will motivate them to work harder and earn more.
To motivate more people to become self-employed, we want to introduce a flat tax in that area; everyone pays the same amount.
Here are the rough numbers:

54k- Lira Per Annum- 30%
54-95k Lira Per Annum- 24%
95-145k Lira Per Annum- 20%
145k+ Lira Per Annum- 16%

Self Employed:
22% Per Annum

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date12:00:32, January 21, 2018 CET
FromAlleanza Radicale - NCD
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageFrancesco di Nacosia-Rohan, Leader of LP:

"Mr Speaker,
If we well understand, the solution of the collegues of ULD to face the public debt and to make "Justice", is... This?
Where is the Justice?
Already you want stamp out any single public service but at the same time you demand to those who more benefit from the public services to pay a disproportionate amount of money for... Nothing in exchange?

Then, where is, as said, the Justice? Make gift to those that are already privileged eradicating the more than right duty to contribute as they can to the efforts of the State, this is for you is to make Justice?
You will not have more rich people, you will have simply those already rich more rich while the more in need will be ever poor. It is sympthomatic of the free market: the richness tends to concentrate, and tendencially where there is already richness.

We will never support such proposals."

Date15:44:28, January 21, 2018 CET
FromNuova Unione
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageAdriano Manfrin:

Can you communists not understand? Really? This IS justice. I am noot going to give my money to someone that doesn't deserve it; I am not going to give my money to anyone. I am a taxpayer. You are too, sir.
You clearly weren't smart enough to figure out that one of the points of this bill was to increase self-employment: to increase the chances of the poor to become richer. 22% taxes are better than 30% taxes. Are they not?
We will have more rich people. Face it, you leftists are wrong. You are always wrong.
This will force people to work harder, this will make the vision of being rich so much sweeter; children will not want to be policemen or sailors. They will want to be professors, lawyers, investors, businessmen, bankers...
And, as I said, this will have an unnoticeable effect on the poor, but the rich will feel the impact, that they pay less.
It doesn't matter how much money the poor pay; they will still be poor.
Look at it this way; many poor people are alcoholics, addicts. They smoke. No more; they won't have the money for that. But if they will want to, they will have to work harder, think outside the box, be more creative, to earn money for those things.
We want an active economy.
We are already facing public debt, it's decreasing. This will decrease it even more; something that leftists were never able to do. You will try to ruin the prosperity that we are introducing but, just so you know, that cannot be achieved. Istalia will prosper, we will be rich! You communists cannot stop the Istalian people! Never!

Date18:31:02, January 21, 2018 CET
FromPartito Nazionale Democratico
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageGianluigi Ricollo, PNI/PNP Speaker for Finance,

This is the first time in my life I see a party brave enough to propose a regressive tax system. I initially could not believe my eyes, however now that it is there our party was faced with a very important decision as opinions are very split. After all, the nationalist party's electorate is those which would pay the two highest-percentage tax bracket. On the other hand, we love the idea of the tax benefit for the self-employed. Our own party believes in all throughout flat tax of about 20-25 % kicking in at about 20000 Lira per Annum, we have not done the maths yet concerning the precise numbers. However, everyone earning less than 20000 Lira per Annum (or whatever that number may end up as) should pay less to leave the poor with more income, and that is the main and only reason why we will abstain from voting regarding this proposal. We believe that everyone should be allowed to keep their hard earned money, especially the poor, for whom a couple of Lira makes a huge difference as it is a larger proportion of their earnings, moreover taxing them more does not make sense for the government as the increase in govt. income will be meagre and probably unable to cover the deficit.

Thank you

Date09:43:48, January 22, 2018 CET
FromAlleanza Radicale - NCD
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageRiccardo Morelli, Whip of LP:

"How you dare fucking idiot to say "we are wrong"? And how you dare to talk in this way? "the poor will be always poor"? What the fucking are you saying? The work of this government is IMPROVE THE LIFE OF ISTALIAN CITIZENS!
One of these days, fucking egoist idiots, someone will fire a bullet in your fucking back!

Shame on you and on your unsensibilitness and your egoism!

This is not a fucking anarchy! This is a State of Law, this is a Nation founded to assist the istalians, not let them fall! We are not animals like you, we are not under the law of the jungle! We will not..."

***Hon. Morelli is escorted out of the Chamber by the ushers***

Date09:55:25, January 22, 2018 CET
FromAlleanza Radicale - NCD
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageFrancesco di Nacosia-Rohan, Leader of LP:

"Mr Speaker,
I would like apologize for the behavior of my collegues, however, we shares its same concerns about your "intelligence".
Hon. Ricollo as said what we need to definite this law as unfair, as an idioty, as nothing to do with the "Justice", namely:

" We believe that everyone should be allowed to keep their hard earned money, especially the poor, FOR WHOM A COUPLE OF LIRA MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE AS IT IS A LARGER PORTION OF THEIR EARNINGS"

Is it so difficult to understand that 30% of 1000 Lira weighs more in proportion than 30% on one million lire? For the former you left him with 700 LIS, the latter will remain with 700.000 LIS.
The former with 700 LIS have to cover all the basic necessity he needs, the latter with 700.000 LIS... I think that he can more than cover also any other whim he likes.

And, as said, you earn 100 times more than me? YOU SHALL CONTRIBUITE 120 MORE TIMES THAN ME! It is a simple concept.
Who has more SHALL contribute more than who has less. This is Justice. This is SOCIAL JUSTICE!

Avoid to reply, your idiocy has tired everyone, only CdF continues to go after you, but what does it matter of CdF? A party that first votes to demolish the welfare and all forms of social justice and then hurries to mend damage?
And they care of the environment! The environment can only be saved putting strong limits to the actions of the superrich and the larger corporations, not giving them gift after gift and deregularizing all the markets... what "environmentalist" are you?

Mr Speaker, from LP this is the last reply to all this madness, we want just thansk the collegues of PNI that, despite their attraction for the idea, they fully understand the "little" idiocy in all this proposed madness.

Thank you"

Date13:04:22, January 22, 2018 CET
FromNuova Unione
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageAdriano Manfrin:

That is the opposite of justice. That is theft. We should calculate the basis of how much tax one pays on the basis of how much they contribute to our society.
And the poor pay the least.
THAT is justice. The citizens serve the nation, not the other way around.

Date13:28:08, January 22, 2018 CET
FromAlleanza Radicale - NCD
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageFrancesco di Nacosia-Rohan:

"Mr Spekaer,
We protest! "The citizens serve the nations?" This is a fascist declaration! Blame on the ULD! What sick idea of a State do you have? The State SERVES the citizens, not at all the contrary! Now we understand from where comes such horrible proposals!
This ULD is a masquerade! Fascists, seldonists, nuncirists waring the sembiances of "Liberals"!

We call the President of the Republic and the Supreme Court to remember to all the collegues who is a servant here. Not the people, not the citizens, but you, me, all of us, elected to SERVE AT BEST OUR CITIZENS and THEIR nation.

after such a statement me and my collegues prefers leave the Chamber!"

Date14:40:09, January 22, 2018 CET
FromNuova Unione
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageLeave it, and please do not return.

Date14:40:38, January 22, 2018 CET
FromNuova Unione
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
Message^ Adriano Manfrin, ULD

Date14:49:38, January 22, 2018 CET
FromNuova Unione
ToDebating the P.d.l. 02/4335: Economic Justice II
MessageAdriano Manfrin, ULD:

Additionally, I think that I have to explain that thought;

The state does not serve the citizens merely because they are the nation's citizens and the citizens serve the nation in the sense of the nation being the institutions located there and the citizens as individuals that earned their place in the nation.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
  

Total Seats: 165

no
   

Total Seats: 224

abstain
   

Total Seats: 246


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