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Bill: ID Card Scraping Act II
Details
Submitted by[?]: Partisans And Artisans League
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2065
Description[?]:
| ID cards should be taken out of circulation because they are costly and unnecessary. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government-issued identity card policy.
Old value:: Citizens are issued with identity cards on a voluntary basis.
Current: Citizens are issued with identity cards on a voluntary basis.
Proposed: Citizens are not issued with identity cards.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:06:28, June 06, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Debate and vote in this one. Sorry about the mistake. |
| Date | 13:14:22, June 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Populist Party - Zogist Mafia | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | ID cards must be made into a microchip which we can insert inside a citizen. |
| Date | 16:07:23, June 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Populist Party - Zogist Mafia | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | I was thinking there should also be a global positioninh tracking device and some plastic explosive, at least for slaves |
| Date | 19:04:28, June 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Populist Party - Zogist Mafia | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Oh, and a barcode tatoo would be handy |
| Date | 23:52:03, June 06, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | What you are suggesting is a pretty good description of the mark of the beast as prophesied in Revelation. Scary...... |
| Date | 23:57:40, June 06, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | And plans to be introduced by Mondex a subsiduary of Mastercard. Instead of plastic explosives they are intending to have the battery break down inside the body if the chip is tampered with. |
| Date | 00:09:39, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Killing the carrier btw |
| Date | 12:14:18, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian Communist Party | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Costly and unneccessary? What of citizens that do not have drivers licences and other forms of identification? What if they are injured or killed and they are not carrying any other form of ID? Furthermore; what does it cost to laminate a small piece of paper? Not much more than a birth certificate, I imagine. It's also worthy to note that the current system is purely voluntary - why is there a need to change it at all? |
| Date | 16:15:51, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Well if youkeep up to date with international (or national politics, I don't know where your from in the real world) you would realise that they cost ~£93 per person, in Britain. This is because of the biometrics involved which you need for the scheme to work, and if you intend to remove the biometrics the card can be easily forged so is useless. On the issue of "citizens that do not have drivers licences and other forms of identification" - everyone has a birth certificate for emergencies, which is legally recognised as ID. Or a passport, which if you were really set on people having ID you could insist that they have a passport, and hence cut the cost burden. If they are "injured or killed" well they can use the normal means of communicating their pain or situation, namely screaming, swearing..... it makes no difference if they are carrying ID or not, if they will be helped or found through the normal channels that exist (in all countries without ID cars) should that be necessary. If they're dead well they won't be that concerned with their identity. The fundamental issue with ID cards however is government control. The matter of people being "injured or killed" is just a polite but shallow argument that appeals to the masses because it makes so little difference. To prove its irelovance as an argument, lets think about the figure of £93 per person. 93 x 41,712,726 = £3,879,283,518 £3.88bn for ID cards for Beluzia. If your argument is based on those "injured or killed" and the problems that them not having an ID card on their person may cause then might I suggest that for those (let's say) 100 people a year the £3.88bn could save 100s of times more people if invested in health care etc. So that argument is flawed. On the matter of protection from terrorist threats, this is also not an issue because (taking 9/11 as an example) all the terrorist bombers were in the USA legally and would therefore have been issued with ID cards had they been in use - not preventing the tragic loss of life. It is therefore a matter of government control, therefore, we at the PAL intend to stand against the enfringement of civil liberties that is ID cards. But, we aren't expecting LCP support for the bill anyway because Communism isn't exactly the greatest supporter of civil lberties. |
| Date | 16:19:52, June 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Populist Party - Zogist Mafia | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Hey, how much would my global positioning and plastic explosives chip cost? |
| Date | 20:48:50, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Hah were alredy spending a lot on the death star, I think you need to cool off before the non-existant economy collapses |
| Date | 23:04:23, June 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Populist Party - Zogist Mafia | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Don't forget the huge revenues from the organ harvesting, experimentation, and pay-per-view gladitorial combat engaged in by the wicked amongst us! |
| Date | 23:45:26, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Neo-Marxist revolutionary Party | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | This may sound odd but, can anyone find the old thread in which we voted for ID cards? I think I'm just going blind but I can't find it. |
| Date | 23:49:30, June 07, 2005 CET | From | Neo-Marxist revolutionary Party | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Actually you don't need biometrics for the scheme to work. The current type of ID card in use in Britain is a simple photo card. Similarly in France their ID card doubles as their passport and biometrics are not used. So I see no reason why our current system does not reflect / should not reflect the French system whereby the ID card doubles as a passport. (Sorry for the use of R-L countries, it's the only way I can illustrate my point). |
| Date | 12:09:14, June 08, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Yeah sorry about my use as well |
| Date | 18:37:57, June 08, 2005 CET | From | Partisans And Artisans League | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | "The current type of ID card in use in Britain is a simple photo card" - why is it being replaced? I ain't got one - where can one procure one? |
| Date | 00:23:51, June 10, 2005 CET | From | Neo-Marxist revolutionary Party | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | Basically the gov. want a compulsary ID card not a voluntary one as stands. You can get one from here: http://www.validateuk.co.uk/ it's gov. approved and costs £7.50 for over 18's including postage; and £5 for 12/15 and 16/18 year olds. Similar pricing to an NUS card. (Apologies to all those who aren't interested). |
| Date | 18:54:49, June 11, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian Communist Party | To | Debating the ID Card Scraping Act II |
| Message | I don't believe government control is the question here. I think it's quite the opposite. We are giving the citizens who do not have any other form of personal identification (who the hell takes a birth certificate with them when they go camping or to the bar?) an opportunity to have one if they so desire for their own personal safety. We are not limiting their right to obtain a form of official ID that isn't a driving licence or something that requires a committment of some sort (not everybody drives a car), and we are not forcing them to get a compulsory ID card. If anything, we're *supporting* liberties, here. Under the current system, the citizens have the liberty to choose either way. For the record, I would NOT support a compulsory scheme, as I do view it as an infringement of civil liberties. Nor do I believe they are an effective remedy or preventitive measure against terrorism. By the way, if it's a voluntary system, and the cost is oh-so-crippling as you describe, why not some small...say, $10, fee for receiving them? "because Communism isn't exactly the greatest supporter of civil lberties." OOC: Ughh. Explain why, on the political compass website, I got a -8.97/10, then. Note the libertarian in my name- I run a socially libertarian communist party. You are blinded by a historical perception of stalinist dictatorship as communism, which, as I have explained to you, it is precisely NOT. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 86 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 165 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 49 |
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