We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: Act I
Details
Submitted by[?]: Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK)
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 4411
Description[?]:
| This is an act in a series of bills. This proposal will cut the general assembly in half, making representation of all voices a possibility once again. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The total number of seats in the legislative assembly. Should be between 75 and 750.
Old value:: 750
Current: 79
Proposed: 375
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 08:56:36, June 15, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Please post our opinions on this act so we can come to a conclusion. |
| Date | 08:57:11, June 15, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | your* (Our apologies for the typing error) |
| Date | 15:48:09, June 15, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | We are certainly opposed to decreasing the size of the number of Deputies that represent the people of Kalistan. We are curious as to why the Libertarians would like to do so? "Making things simpler" is the historically used reason, that almost everyone who would like to change this law has used, but it doesn't make anything simpler, because a majority is still a majority, and majorities are what are needed to pass laws, not a specific number of seats. So we are curious about why the Libertarians would like to make these changes. |
| Date | 15:50:11, June 15, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | The way to gain votes is to propose legislation. It has no problem with minorities or monopolies. If you propose bills that the SP can support, we will. If you propose bills that the SP cannot support, we will not support them. But the seat count won't always be as it is, which is why the SP is moving its agenda now, while we can. |
| Date | 23:02:27, June 15, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Political philosophies are not universal. Our party's agenda reflects most Libertarian principles, but not all of them, making our agenda somewhat diverse and unique. Having that said, we believe that the monopoly that the SP has over legislation is extremely detrimental due to the fact that there is no guard protecting against radical change that might harm our citizens. There is no legislation at the moment; there is just one party calling the shots. The longer that goes on, the more damage there will be in the long run. Please consider this. Government shouldn't be one party calling the shots. |
| Date | 00:07:54, June 16, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Good Comrades, We respect your position on this, but we would have 91% of the legislature if there were 375 seats same as we have 91% of the legislature now that there are 750. The number of seats does not change the relative power between the Parties. And heck, why stop at 375? Why not just make it 5 seats, one for each District? If we did that, then, by the last election results, The Socialist Party would actually have 100 percent of the seats in the Legislature, because our elections would essentially become winner-take all, and we won the pluralities in all 5 Districts. While that may benefit the Socialist Party, having MORE seats rather than less benefits the voters, because smaller and smaller percentages of voters have access to a more varied representation from their district. If there are fewer seats available, it takes a increasingly large percentage to be eligible for one. Having 750 seats is actually the most representative configuration, not the least. The composition of that legislative configuration is more granular. As it is: the SP took 91% of all seats from the last election. That fact won't change if we change the number of seats available. |
| Date | 00:30:52, June 16, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | You must consider, however, that the more representation there is, the less effective legislation becomes. 750 seats in one legislative body is no exception to this rule; it makes our legislation far too difficult to manage. Now, I respect the SP's position on this matter- 375 seats might not be enough representation. Could we possibly come to a conclusion at lowering the general assembly to 450 seats? |
| Date | 02:17:10, June 16, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Why is 750 seats more difficult to manage? Comrade, Listen to me. It is all about percentages of the legislature. 91% is 91% whether it is with 450 or 750. I don't understand what the difference is, except that it is easier for smaller parties to more easily pick up seats in elections with 750 than it is with 450. It requires a larger percentage of the vote to pick up one seat, because each seat represents more people when there is a smaller number of seats. Do the math. We have just under 100 million people in Kalistan. Divide that number by 750, and see how many people have to vote for you to pick up one seat. Now, divide that same number by 450. You will notice that the number is almost twice as large. That means it is twice as difficult for a Party to pick up one seat in a 450 seat legislature. Meaning, those Parties which only pick up fractions of percentages will be grossly underrepresented in the Legislature. It doesn't make sense to change the size of the legislature. This size of legislature promotes MORE Parties to participate, not less. If that is truly the Libertarian Party's aim, as they say, then they should want to allow as many people as possible to participate. And if we the SP did as the Libertarians said we did, and were trying to limit participation so we could maintain our monopoly, we should make the legislature have only 5 or 10 seats in it. (OOC: Man, you gotta trust me on this: if you;re really trying to make it so smaller parties can get seats, the more seats there are in the assembly, the easier that is... I've been playing this game for over 10 years. The reason I have all these seats is because I didn't really have any opposition. If you want to be more competitive in elections, you gotta vote on bills that move positions around.) |
| Date | 05:31:24, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | The Libertarian Party understands that no party will or should be able to gain an upper hand through cutting the general assembly in half. That is not our agenda; instead, we are trying to promote a more efficient legislation here in Kalistan so that our citizens will have the proactive government they deserve. Cutting the number of seats in half within the general assembly is an amazing idea because it will make legislation run much smoother than before. Even though the people might not have as much representation, every legislative process will run more efficiently due to the fact that 375 representatives are much easier to manage than 750. |
| Date | 05:49:36, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Does it make things smoother? Why? Currently I have 91.47% of all seats in the National Assembly. And I will use those 91.47% to vote as a block. In fact, I don't have a choice. Under a Legislature that has 750 seats, that means I have 686 seats. Indeed that is the case. The Minority Party has the remaining 64 seats (750-686 is 64, and sure enough, that's what they have). Under a legislature of 375 seats, I would have 343 seats and the Minority Party would have 32 seats. That's just how the math works. It wouldn't make it any LESS easy for me to pass bills that I want to have 343 seats as opposed to 686 seats. I would still control 91.47% of all possible votes in the legislature. If we have 375 seats in the Assembly, all I would need to do is earn 188 seats to have an outright majority. I would have done that and then some in a legislature of 375 seats. As I said, if the election in a 375 seat legislature looked the same as the one in the 750 seat legislature, the percentage result would have still been exactly the same. A SMALLER legislature doesn't mean that MORE opinions get expressed. Because 91 percent is still 91 percent. In fact the size of the legislature is irrelevant if you are attempting to stop someone who has 91 percent of all seats from pushing through whatever legislation he likes. It is MUCH easier to create a niche for yourself and get a few seats if there are more seats to be gotten, actually. The more seats we have the MORE potential that there is for more Parties to participate. Efficiency is not an issue either. a super majority is the MOST efficient method of passing legislation, actually. Because then the only question to be concerned about is time. I don't have to convince ANYONE to vote with me. If efficiency is what you are after, then you should be promoting a one party state. So its not easier to pick up seats if there are actually fewer seats to be picked up, and its not more efficient to pass legislation with more Parties who potentially serve as veto players in all bills. In fact, compromise and negotiation SLOWS legislation to a crawl. So tell us now, what reason does the esteemed speaker for the Libertarian Party have for seeking to LIMIT the choices available to average Kalistani citizens AND slow down the process of legislation? We are still waiting for a compelling argument. |
| Date | 06:13:14, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | Do you really believe that more seats in legislation will still be efficient when each party has an equal share in representation? Legislation might be efficient now because you have all the seats, but think about the future; our party isn't trying to limit the choices available for each citizen. We are trying to make government more efficient to give our hard working citizens the effective legislation they deserve. Effective representation empowers people. |
| Date | 06:17:07, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | No, Legislation will be the opposite of efficient when each Party has an equal share of the seats. My point is that the NUMBER of the seats has nothing to do with a Share of the Seats. Legislation will be as efficient or not if 5 parties each control 20% of the seats in a 750 Seat Legislature as it would if 5 Parties each controlled 20% of the seats in a 375 seat legislature. This bill does not do what the authors are claiming it does. Therefore, I ask the Speaker of the Libertarian Party to kindly move this bill to a vote so that we may vote against it. And so we can then move on. |
| Date | 06:18:52, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | And if you want effective legislation to pass, we fully encourage you to ask the Party who controls 91 percent of the seats to vote for it, and it will pass with the Libertarians casting zero votes at all, if the SP can vote for it. Lickity Split. Good to go. Efficiency taken to the highest level. |
| Date | 06:27:42, June 18, 2018 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Kalistan (LPoK) | To | Debating the Act I |
| Message | The Libertarian Party respects the Socialist's argument and request. We will be moving this bill to a vote. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 0 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 750 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Real life-life nationalities, cultures or ethnicities should not be referenced in Particracy (eg. "German"). |
| Random quote: "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. " - P. J. O Rourke |