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Bill: Towards a Hosian Kalistan Act of 4419
Details
Submitted by[?]: Hosian Democratic Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 4419
Description[?]:
| We rise today to propose the following legislation aimed at making the United Republic of Kalistan a Hosian state. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religious organizations are not permitted to actively promote themselves or advertise, however evangelism is permitted by individuals.
Current: Religious organizations are not permitted to actively promote themselves or advertise, however evangelism is permitted by individuals.
Proposed: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning religions.
Old value:: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Current: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Proposed: There is an official state religion, but membership is completely voluntary.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change
Taxation of religious institutions.
Old value:: Religions are treated as companies, and all profit is taxed, however, charitable donations are not taxed.
Current: All religious income, despite the use, is taxed.
Proposed: Recognized religions are not taxed.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 23:36:36, July 05, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Towards a Hosian Kalistan Act of 4419 |
| Message | We are inclined to support Article 2 if the Religion is officially Brethrenism. Since the Hosian Democrats are in touch with our friends the Brethren, they will certainly remember the history of the Brethren, which went arm and arm with the Socialists during the Age of Affluence. And as a matter of fact, it was Brethren who refounded our Party in 4405, and organized the first meetings to put the Socialists back into office. The Socialist Party of Kalistan draws great support from the Brethren, who even today make up nearly 60 Percent of the country's population, all without any sort of modicum of official harassment from the Socialist Party, contrary to the editorial published in the Republic the other day. In fact, through most of the history of the 40th and 41st Century, it was all the SP could do to keep Kalistan secular, due to the extremely deep influence of the Brethren in the leadership and membership of this Party. So if the Hosian Speaker will agree that official religion of Kalistan should be Brethrenism, the Socialist Party will certainly go along with that provision. If they are not comfortable with this, and prefer a religion with a less Leftist bent, we will just say, we would support Article 1, if the HDP would kindly separate that out and put it in a different bill. But under no circumstances will we support removing any entity from taxation, and the Hosians have not offered any sort of justification for such an offensive proposal. There is nothing special about religion that should exempt it from taxation, while we make even those citizens who earn 1 ruble a year pay some part of that in taxes. Nobody is exempt from taxation in Kalistan, and I doubt there is anything the Hosians could say that would change that. But We are curious to hear the argument anyway, if the Hosians would care to make it. Why, except for some special dispensation, should religions be exempt from taxation? |
| Date | 23:46:51, July 05, 2018 CET | From | Hosian Democratic Party | To | Debating the Towards a Hosian Kalistan Act of 4419 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We appreciate our colleagues in the SPoK for being willing to have this conversation. It is, of course, true what they say that we are in touch with their and our shared friends, the Brethren. We count many of them as members of our own party as well. We are, of course, not at all uncomfortable with economically leftist ideologies. We would consider ourselves among those parties with a leftist bend economically speaking. To answer our friends in the SPoK, we would say that we have no interest in the state recognizing any one church, sect, or denomination. It is the overall religion, the Hosian faith, that we seek to have recognized. Not one particular Church, but if I may use the term, the umbrella group, Hosian that we seek to have recognized. I'd be more than willing to compromise with the SPoK and to pass articles one and two and drop number three if the good members of the SPoK were to cease tax payer funding for abortion, with the exception of medical emergencies. |
| Date | 01:49:31, July 06, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Towards a Hosian Kalistan Act of 4419 |
| Message | Comrade Speaker, Surely the Hosians will recognize that there is a universe of disagreement between the various sects of Hosianism: The differences are perhaps more stark than they are between some hosians and Yehudists. We have Socialists in the leadership who declare their support for Brethrenism. But if you were to ask what they think of The Bishopal Church of Kalistan, our own fellow countrymen, they will decry the dogmatism and assert that they would rather not worship than be governed by that faith. Sure: The Bishopals may have some truth, they will say, but no more than any one else, and no human has the right to set themselves up as the voice of God on Terra. So when the HDP says that the goal should be to establish Hosianism, an umbrella term, as the governing morality of the nation, we answer that it is better at least to allow the morality of Ethical Socialism to govern Kalistan, as it has for more than 1000 years, and let the co-religionists live in peace rather than scramble for influence. Not to put too fine a point on this, but for some Hosians, it is an article of faith that Eliyahu died and rose again on the Third day, and if you do not believe this, you cannot possibly be a Hosian. Yet, we all know members of the Brethren faith who argue that such a belief is not at all necessary for a correct relationship with God. So which is right? Are both right? Are neither right? If one is right and one is not right, will we let that particular article of faith govern things in Kalistan to the detriment of the others' beliefs? Or are we just Hosian in name only, and not serious about making Kalistan into a theocracy? Listen: Kalistan was not ordained by God. We are now, always have been and always will be a nation of man. Man made these laws, and if we were guided by any sort of eternal wisdom, it was by the writings of Edward Bennots, the author of Ethical Socialism. https://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Ethical_Socialism I have no doubt that our good comrades in the HDP have read this, as they sympathize with the Left in economic areas. Our Republic was declared by man, and our Empire was abolished by man. Not too long ago, actually. The Socialist Party's archives document the vote. As a matter of fact, the Socialist Party back in 4056 write the bill which established this Republic. And so we ask, Comrade Speaker: We ask our friends the Hosians what our civic nation owes God, when it was not God who established this Republic, but the Socialist Party of Kalistan. Here is the bill here, including the vote: 750 of 750 seats, including Labourists, Conservatives, and Libertarians all joined with the Socialists to formally abolish Empire, and with it, divine right of Kings, and establish, for ourselves, a Republic, of men and men's laws to exert sovereignty over the Lands we call Kalistan. That happened on September 1, 4056., which is now celebrated as Republican Day. Finally, Comrade Speaker: We would like to address the claims made by our esteemed colleagues in the Kalistani Republic regarding persecution of Religion here in Kalistan. We would answer simply that our laws cover corporate expressions of faith, not individual. We are not in the business of regulating individual religious beliefs. We are however, interested in regulating the activities of corporate entities, including those who seek to proselytize in the name of God. We are concerned that some religious corporations misrepresent the message of God: In fact, we are certain that some do. We are not sure which ones do, of course, as we are a secular organization, as the SP. However, we do know that when two men disagree on a basic fact, at least one of them is wrong. It is basic logic. When two denominations disagree about a single fact, for example, whether belief in the Annunciation of Eliyahu is absolutely necessary for forgiveness of sins and entrance into Heaven, as our Patriarchal and Brethren do, at least one of them must be wrong. As we have a prohibition in this country against false advertising, but both groups wish to advertise, then we must become the judge with regard to which is correct so that we may prevent the incorrect one from spreading false advertising. In other words, if we allow religious advertising, we not only open the door to political intervention against at least SOME religious advertisement, but we also open the door to favoritism of the other. And to change the law and abolish the prohibition against false advertising seems like a tacit endorsement of false advertising by the government of Kalistan. Do not our Hosian friends agree with us that it is far better that we don't attempt to tell individual Kalistani Citizens what they should or should not believe, as we are merely trying to enforce our laws? I personally do. The Government of Kalistan regulates all corporate activity outside of the political sector. This includes the activities of economic actors as well as civic organizations. We do not circumscribe activities except where they are prohibited by law, but we do insist that they abide by the Republic's laws. If we get into the business of judging what is truth and what is not, I assure you, many Hosians will then have grounds to claim that the Socialist Party, who currently is the government of Kalistan, is discriminating them and suppressing their religious beliefs, while such activity is not happening currently, not for individual Kalistanis. Comrade Speaker, We yield our time back to the chair. |
| Date | 01:52:46, July 06, 2018 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Towards a Hosian Kalistan Act of 4419 |
| Message | Correction, Comrade Speaker, Tax support for abortion is not germane to this particular Bill. We would be willing to have that debate elsewhere. We yield. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |
| yes | Total Seats: 0 | |
| no | Total Seats: 750 | |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: When it comes to creating a Cultural Protocol in a Culturally Open nation, players are not necessarily required to provide a plausible backstory for how the nation's cultural background developed. However, the provision of a plausible backstory may be a factor in whether Moderation approves the Cultural Protocol if players in surrounding nations question its appropriateness for their region of the game map. |
| Random quote: "Seventy-seven percent of anti-abortion leaders are men. 100% of them will never be pregnant." - Planned Parenthood advertisement |