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Bill: Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill

Details

Submitted by^[?]: removed

Status^[?]: passed

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: February 2038

Description^[?]:

A Bill to regulate practices in relation to the recruitment of personnel to the civil service and the wider public service.

Proposals

Article 1

Proposal^[?] to change Appointments and requirements for government employees.

Old value:: Government employees are selected and appointed in a political way.

Current:
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Proposed: All government employees have to promise political independence.

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date	not recorded
From	Communist Party of Endralon
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	We support this bill.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Can we clarify precisely what 'political independence' means in this context? Does it just mean not being formally affiliated with any one party, or will government employees also be forbidden from expressing political views?

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	And this is what I wrote my Public Administration essay on last semester. I tend to go along with the German model in that top level officials (Secretaries General and such) can be political appointees (seeing as the need for them to be onside politically is very important) but all other lower civil and public servants are recruited on the basis of merit and are protected from political interference but can, if they wish, express political views outside the job.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	I will oppose this. It makes government employees second class citizens without the same rights as everyone else.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	This to me reads that government employees cannot be politically active (as is the case in Ireland)

Date	not recorded
From	Unified Communist Labor Party
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Wouldn't this bill screw with cabinet appointments?

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	It depends on the level of employment but as we all know, the game is hardly the most sensitive of tools to use. At the very least it drags the civil service up from the horrific times of the 19th century when all appointments were based on who you knew.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Hmm. Certainly would be a good idea to suggest that they get the ambiguity cleared up...

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	...but isn't it the case that if you want to expand the public sector, while making government employees apolitical, that your program will effectively amount to mass disenfranchisement?

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	i oppose this

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	I don't see how anyone is disenfranchised. Perhaps if you construe this as meaning they can't participate in local party politics and such then I see your point but if you look at the current law, then I take this as meaning recruitment on merit and reasonable detachment when performing duties.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	i beleive that unless the people in power appoint the people below them, there will be no guarantee of loyalty or obedience of those in power

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Hence my reference in previous posts to senior civil servants being somewhat politicised.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	See, IRL I'm a civil servant and am not allowed participate in politics (Irish law). It was an emergency power brought in in the 1930's which was never taken away. I break the rule obviously but it could get me the sack some day when I do something that gets noticed by the bosses.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Yeah but we're talking about game-play here. Like I said previously, I take this construction, if passed, to mean that run of the mill employees of the government are recruited on a merit on not on a spoils system. Should a further issue come which allows civil and/or public servants to participate in outside politics, so be it.

Date	not recorded
From	Communist Party of Endralon
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	It seems we hold the decisive vote. But we are unconvinced either way; so far we lean towards no, because, as ASGP pointed out, making all government employees promise political independence in a country with a strong public sector excludes too many people from the political process.

Date	not recorded
From	Communist Party of Endralon
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Let's say we establish a socialist system in which the government owns the means of production. The vast majority of people will be working, either directly or indirectly, for the government. Thus, this bill would make almost the entire nation promise political independence.

Date	not recorded
From
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	That's assuming you can establish a socialist system first. We believe that the only way forward for the public sector and civil service is through merit based and politically independant appointments.

Date	not recorded
From	Communist Party of Endralon
To	Debating the Civil and Public Service Regulation Bill
Message	Bah, the wording on this issue is horrible. We'd certainly support politically independent appointments, but we wouldn't support forcing civil servants to be apolitical. I'll tell you what: I'm voting yes, but I'll ask the admin for better wording and more options to choose from on this issue.

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Voting

Vote

Seats

yes

Total Seats: 176

Total Seats: 0

abstain

Total Seats: 0

Random fact: Moderation reserves the discretion to declare RP laws invalid if the players supporting them are doing so in an excessively confrontational way.

Random quote: " A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

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