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Bill: Default Variables are Boring. Discuss.
Details
Submitted by[?]: Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry'
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2211
Description[?]:
| We've still got too many bland and boring default variables, and previous discussions to improve them have stopped midway. However, the political climate has changed, and so with new fresh faces and impetuous returns of some classic behemoths, we hope to finally make our nomenclature something more interesting. The THEM, CBP, FHP and ONCP discussed Cultural ideas some years ago and our initial compromise suggestion was slightly too harsh on the Georgeonian Centrists who are now well established here. General consensus was that the THEM wanted a Balkan setting for a rough basis and the FHP wanted a Venician setting. I suggested a compromise of a Slovenian setting, due to Venician and Yugoslavian influences on the culture (and territorial disputes) and this seemed to find favour with both sides. However, the ONCP wanted to retain either President, Prime Minister or Parliament. With the Phalanx Party being based on feudal families, and the ONCP giving their ministers the British "MP" suffix, we suspect that perhaps a more traditional, perhaps as far as slightly monarchic or even imperial titlature would be preferred. As for the GCP, we strongly encourage and would welcome their input, as we feel we put them off too much with the unfair disproportionally low inclusion of them in previous suggestions, and we don't know what they would prefer. The FFYRTP and Libertarians weren't present at the previous discussion attempts - we're trying to create an historical basis to make Pontesi a much more interesting nation to roleplay in the game and on the forum. We welcome input from both parties, but if either of you are apathetic on this (I've not seen either of you on the forum or posting for the Pontesian Enquirer) please support the change regardless. The best compromise I can think of between the Venician, Slavic, Imperial/Dynastic and British influences is probably modelling this on a British-model (albeit without a monarch head of state) democratic country formed from a Medieval Duchy or Principality. However, it should be remembered we cannot model the British form of electing representatives for constituencies as the game doesn't have provisions for this. This way, we have the Imperial Dynasties of familes from a Duchy, we have the model that allows the ONCP to retain their British influence and MP suffixes, and we can explore a cultural background from the Duchies which were prominent around Italy and the Balkan area, changing hands between Empires and Princes and Dukes, and thus requiring some military leadership properties from their head of state. It is with this in mind that I make the following proposals: The Head of State becomes "Grand Vizier-General". Vizier being "Minister or Chief Courtier" and of Islamic influence (with the Turkish Ottomans attacking Balkan principalities, some influence was present, and still is in Albania), General pertaining to Military leadership, and Grand being on par with the other "Grand Duke"s often seen in this era. Whilst the parts are historical, we feel the combination is a unique one that will help Pontesi be original, yet inspired. (From Wikipedia's Vizier article: "During the days of the Ottoman Empire the Grand Vizier was the -often de facto ruling- prime minister, second only to the Sultan (many of whom left politics to him, indulging in court pleasures)". As they often ruled de facto, we feel it'd be better for HoS than HoG.) The Head of Government, we feel, should be changed from "Prime Minister" to something that fuses a democratic implication and also a position of honour. We put "Exalted Representative" on the table but we feel that you could probably come up with something better. The Parliament itself should remain as a Parliament if we are to retain the implications of the British Model, but it should be either prefixed with something honourific or suffixed with a symbolic concept, gesture or item which supports the heritage of the Duchy setting or Pontesi itself. As such, we propose "Parliament of the Cedar Throne" in line with the symbol chosen by the Phalanx Party's patriotic organisation, "The Guardians of the Cedars". "Regions" is bland and has to go completely. We feel that as a trade-off for diluting "Government", we should name the Regions "Wards" as used synoymously with "Constituencies" in Britain from time to time, but again prefix them with "Dynastic" to suit the historical context. the "Dynastic Wards", we feel, combine Ducal heritage with the democratic system. These are, of course, prototypes and we strongly invite input from other parties. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The title of the head of government, who chairs the cabinet.
Old value:: Prime Minister
Current: Õ¯Õ¡Õ¢Õ«Õ¶Õ¥Õ¿Õ« Õ¡Õ¤Õ´Õ«Õ¶Õ«Õ½Õ¿Ö€Õ¡Õ¿Õ¸Ö€ (Administrator of the Cabinet)
Proposed: Grand Vizier-General
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The formal title of the Head of State.
Old value:: President
Current: ÕŠÕ¸Õ¶Õ¿Õ¥Õ½Õ«Õ« Õ¡Õ¤Õ´Õ«Õ¶Õ«Õ½Õ¿Ö€Õ¡Õ¿Õ¸Ö€ (Administrator of Pontesi)
Proposed: Atabeg Accipitrum
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The official title of the legislative assembly.
Old value:: Parliament
Current: ÕŠÕ¸Õ¶Õ¿Õ¥Õ½Õ«Õ¡ÕµÕ« Ô±Õ¦Õ£Õ¡ÕµÕ«Õ¶ ÕªÕ¸Õ²Õ¸Õ¾ (National Assembly of Pontesi)
Proposed: August Parliament of the Cedar Throne
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The official title of subnational entities, also known as regions.
Old value:: Region
Current: ÕŽÕ¡Ö€Õ¹Õ¡Õ¯Õ¡Õ¶ Õ´Õ¡Ö€Õ¦ (Administrative Province)
Proposed: Pentarchal Satrapy
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:03:22, April 02, 2006 CET | From |  Pnték Prsakij Prta (Phalangists) | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I think this is an excellent idea (except 4). Plus the Vizier idea fits in with some sort of Majatran/Seleucian History. With regards to four, I still feels that the use of the word 'ward' is wrong, wards traditionally being much smaller areas. However as to an alternate, I am not entirely sure of a great replacement. County might be an idea, but again it mau not fit in with the proposal, other than that one would suggest looking at another Ottoman Turk name for a region. |
| Date | 23:02:02, April 02, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I'm with this one. It's awesome. |
| Date | 23:34:28, April 02, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | "Parliament" is a bit commonplace though. How about "The August Assembly of the Cedar Throne" or something? You think we can do better than "Exalted Representative"... hmmm. I like "Exalted"... what about "Archon", or in fact, as you said, "Sultan"? Or "Caliph", if you like said Ottoman-sounding ideas. Regions could be... Pentarchies. Like Tetrarchies, but we have five regions. Or Prefectures, perhaps. |
| Date | 02:19:52, April 03, 2006 CET | From |  Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | We thank the Phalanx Party for their support, and agree that point 4 could probably be improved. We approve of "county" as it would suit the ONCP's leanings towards a British Parliament... of course, if the ONCP disagree, they can by all means object. If we fuse this with the FFYRTP's suggestion of "Pentarchies" to give the singular form "Pentarchal County" the "original fusion" concept will make Pontesi original. Sadly, FFYRTP, as nice as your suggestion is for the Government's name, we need to retain some British-model nomenclature for the sake of the ONCP's choice of roleplay in Pontesi. We'll gladly add "August" before Parliament as we feel it's a nice touch, but we can't forget the ONCP's opinions on this. |
| Date | 02:21:15, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | We do, however, see the FFYRTP's suggestion of an "Exalted Archon" and love it. |
| Date | 02:27:31, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Georgeonian Centrist Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I like the proposed changes. How about changing head of state to Sultan and head of government to Grand Vizier? Also how about replacing regions with the Persian term Satrapies. |
| Date | 02:44:05, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | That's the one I was trying to remember. Satrapies. Either way, though. |
| Date | 03:08:23, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | GCP - As we quoted, the Vizier ruled effectively in most cases, and Sultan is kinda clichéd. That said, we like Satrapies a lot. That said, what remains to be seen is whether the ONCP would be prepared to lose the County reference altogether - and under what terms. |
| Date | 11:21:36, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Prsakij Prta (Phalangists) | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Furthermore I kind of dislike using titles for monarchs if we are not going to have a monarch. Satrapies is cool though and fits in much better with the other names. |
| Date | 11:24:29, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Georgeonian Centrist Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | The Sultan / Vizier idea was just a suggestion, I am happy with the current proposal for HOS / HOG. |
| Date | 12:11:11, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | We appreciate the support and the input GCP. Sorry if the criticism seemed harsh. The Phalanx have made a good point though. We need the ONCP's input on this. Furthermore, the Libertarians are yet to have a say and a nod/tweak from the NWP would be nice... |
| Date | 19:20:45, April 03, 2006 CET | From | One Nation Conservative Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I like article 4 and article 2. I suppose August Parliament of the cedar throne is fine. I'm not quite sure about the word exalted though. I like Archon, just not Exalted. |
| Date | 22:27:26, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Well, we put Exalted on the table and knew it could be improved, so we have no qualms in replacing it with something else. We suggest "Gnostic Archon" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon#Gnostic_Archons) because of the mystical element to it. If the ONCP like article 2 and find August Parliament, due to the mass approval for Satrapy, It'd probably suit more people if we went for "Pentarchal Satrapy" over county, so long as we change Exalted. 3 (well, 2 1/2) out of 4's not too bad going. : ) |
| Date | 22:41:58, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Gnostic Archons don't meet with the FFYRTP's approval, I've been informed. |
| Date | 23:04:41, April 03, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | The objection to Gnostic Archons was that Gnosticism came from Ancient Egypt and that it deviated too far from the original setting, despite the appeal of mystical influences, it's a valid reason. Let's keep it slightly simpler. Archon Superior? |
| Date | 03:23:17, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Rock. |
| Date | 04:14:31, April 04, 2006 CET | From | THEM | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Vizier shouldn't be used for head of state, although it's fine for HoG. "Archon" just kinds sucks, and isn't a satrapy supposed to be a person? I'd rather have something like prefecture or oblast for the regions. |
| Date | 10:13:50, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Georgeonian Centrist Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | No a satrapy is a region (governed by a Satrap). |
| Date | 11:52:52, April 04, 2006 CET | From | One Nation Conservative Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I must say, I do like NWP's suggestion of a prefecture. |
| Date | 13:42:04, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Georgeonian Centrist Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Our position: Archon Superior - We don't particularly like as it doesn't fit very well with the other terms, but we are not too bothered about changing it. Grand Vizier-General - We like a lot August Parliament of the Cedar Throne - We like Pentarchal Satrapy - We like. We would REALLY like to keep the term Satrapy in there somewhere! |
| Date | 18:29:48, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | We like all suggestions, and agree that Satrapy should definitely be kept in there. |
| Date | 19:52:16, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Oblasts and Prefectures have been used by other nations and as much I like the terms, the former's Russian, not Balkan, and the latter too sedate. However, we apreciate the growing objections to Archon from the NWP and GCP and thus, despite our original explanation for making Grand Vizier-General HoS, we'll move it to HoG. Regions will remain as Pentarchal Satrapies because, as the CCP correctly states, they are ruled by a Satrap, not the persons themselves. This leaves an important void - Head of State. The advantage the Vizier title has is that both men and women characters can fill it, without the need for alternative titles as with Duke/Duchess, King/Queen, Emperor/Empress etc. As much as a Duke title would be the best to suit something based on a Duchy (sorry to state the obvious :P). We need something original and without this problem. How about Atabeg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atabeg) - from the description it's on par with Duke, of Turkish origin (the Ottomans and the Turks are effective equivalents). To give it the Pontesian twist, we've had no Venician/Italian influences, and we've not even mentioned the Hawks, so I propose making it the "Atabeg of the Hawks" in latin. Thanks to FFYRTP assistance, we conclude this to be "Atabeg Accipitrum". This means when the FHP return, they won't feel left out, and we'll have an original title that incorporates another national emblem besides the Cedar. |
| Date | 22:13:28, April 04, 2006 CET | From | One Nation Conservative Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Atabeg Accipitrum is a lil strange but I can live with it. Re: FHP I'm not sure whether they are coming back, they said they'd be away for 2 weeks, that was 4 weeks ago. |
| Date | 23:11:44, April 04, 2006 CET | From | Fight For Your Right To Party | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I think it's strange too, but meh. |
| Date | 15:38:21, April 05, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | I agree it's strange, but it's certainly original... Which helps. I'll gather more opinions. Make counter-suggestions by all means. ONCP - the FHP would have to notify the mods in the forum, and then they'd have to get him reactivated. If the removal of the Labour Party was anything to go by... |
| Date | 12:17:22, April 06, 2006 CET | From | Pnték Znkak Prta 'Bastardry' | To | Debating the Default Variables are Boring. Discuss. |
| Message | Meh, I'll put it to vote. Let's get the three we agree on in place and if there's enough disapproval of the HoS name, we can revise in another bill. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 265 | ||||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 34 |
| Random fact: Before choosing a nation, you may wish to research it first. For more information on the cultural backgrounds of the nations, please see the Cultural Protocols Index: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6365 |
| Random quote: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson |