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Bill: Racial and Religious Hatred Bill
Details
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2221
Description[?]:
| Make provision about offences involving stirring up hatred against persons on racial or religious grounds. - Hatred against persons on racial or religious grounds (a) creates offences involving stirring up hatred against persons on religious grounds, and (b) amends provisions relating to offences involving stirring up hatred against persons on racial grounds. - Meaning of “religious hatred” “Religious hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief. * * * A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if - he intends thereby to stir up racial or religious hatred, or - having regard to all the circumstances the words, behaviour or material are (or is) likely to be heard or seen by any person in whom they are (or it is) likely to stir up religious or racial hatred. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:01:02, April 23, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | The growing tide of racial and religious hatred in Dranland is alarming, and we call on the government to take action to put an end to it once and for all. People are suffering all over the country and some have even been victim to violence and even death simply because of their race or religious persuasion. (A recent example is the case of Lucy Woodhall, 18, who was found murdered in Tref Sianti, near the welsh-Dranian slum city of Ymgarthiad in Elbian, simply because of her religious affiliation). |
| Date | 16:07:02, April 23, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | The PGC welcomes laws preventing the inciting of racial hatred. The celtic-dranlandians minority who have lived in the Elbian region for centuries have been abused and stepped upon all too often. However we are uncomfortable with the idea of a religious hatred bill. On the face of it it is a good idea, however we must ensure that it does not become a law preventing discussion, especially when some of the "religions" in question is considered by the majority of Dranlandians to be nothing more than cults which scams their own followers. An example of religious hatred would be: "all christians/jews/muslims are scum and should be burnt to death". (It may be possible to include scientology in that list, however that depends on your take on whether it is a religion or not.) What is NOT and should NEVER be considered racial hatred is examples like: "Jesus never existed, the bible is just a work of fiction" "Catholic teachings are harming society by preventing people from using contraception" "Evangelical christians are more of a danger to our soceity than any war" "Islamic extremist teachings can lead to acts of terrorism" "Scientology is a cult whose only purpose is to fill the pockets of those who con their fellow "followers" We are wary that Theta will try and use a law against inciting religious hatred to prevent other parties/religions/pressure groups/newspapers and individuals from critisising the Scientology cult and pointing out it's flaws. |
| Date | 16:09:29, April 23, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | The PGC have already replied to a Theta inquiry about the death of Lucy Woodhall with the following statement: "Welsh-dranians are peaceful people who have survived centuries of mistreatment and oppression without lashing out in anger. While the PGC knows nothing about the circumstances of this particular death we find it highly unlikely that a Welsh-dranian would have committed such an act with political motivation. We cannot rule out the possibility however that a welsh-dranioan commited the attack as self defence against racists comments made by the victim. If this was the case, then it is highly likely that the welsh-dranian was also drunk. The PGC would congratulate him for keeping the drunken traditions of his welsh heritidge alive, but condem any act of violence he committed. As you know from our anti-drafting bills the PGC is a reletively peaceful party, especially compared to the rest of Dranland. We will mourn the passing of a fellow Dranlandian, but we will also warn the public that when they join a religious cult they are signing themselves up for danger, from within and from outside." |
| Date | 16:11:09, April 23, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | We would also like to point out that we should be careful in sticking racial hatred and religious hatred in the same basket. A race is something you'r born with and which you cannot change, there is no justification for ridiculing someones race. A religion is a set of beliefs which the person in question has personally chosen. If their beliefs are absurd, there is justification for ridiculing it. |
| Date | 17:24:45, April 23, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | There is a vast difference between simple ridicule and incitement to hatred. Most religious scholars, theologans and sociologists would agree that the word "cult" is hateful and used to dismiss the religious beliefs or practices of a minority or non-orthodox group. The irony here is that Scientology is the largest religious group in Dranland and has been recognised as a bonafide religion since 2184. The Church's figures claim that over a third of Dranians are active Scientologists or have at least taken courses, but since the increased tensions and suppression against the movement fewer people are keen to stand up and be counted for fear of repercussions. An independent census puts the current figure at around 1 in 7, but also acknowledges that due to the recent Scienophobia in Dranland it is likely to be higher. Actions that can be seen to be inciting racial or religious hatred toward an individual or group, "by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief" must be outlawed to protect people's basic rights and freedoms. Intelligent criticism of religion is not the same thing and we encourage it as it promotes free debate, reason and discussion. Active suppression, oppression and racial/religious hatred, however, is another matter entirely and it is this which we want to see addressed. Lucy Woodhall died solely because of her religious beliefs. She was an honest, ethical, kind, compassionate and law-abiding citizen. A caring individual who wanted to make a difference in the world. She became a Scientology Auditor (counsellor) for the Flag Service Org in Scientia just 7 months ago, wanting to help people and make the world a better place. She was brutally murdered simply because her beliefs were not shared by her killers. We beg the government to take action now before any more innocent people die. These are dark times for Dranland. Dark times indeed. |
| Date | 17:59:45, April 23, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | The person or people who killed Lucy Woodhall will be brought to justice under the current legislation, that of murder. Your last stament seems to say that under your defenition of "incitment of racial hatred" describing Scientology as a "cult" in the Dranland Daily News would be a criminal offence. That would be a grave infringment on the right of free speech. Every citizen of Dranland has the right to call any religion he believes to be a sham a "cult". This is not racial hatred or bigotary, it's a simple denounciation of a set of ideas (which is COMPLEATLY different to racism where it's a denounciation purely on race). The simple fact is that Scientology numbers in Dranland has collapsd in recent years from the high of 1 in 3. The main factor behind this fall is the contribution of opposition parties who have worked hard to highlight the faults in the cult. Theta will clearly try and use this bill to reverse this trend by preventing opposition parties, other religions, pressure groups and other religions from publically deriding their "faith". Your claim that the number of believers have not fallen, but are hidden due to fear of reprecussions is clearly false. Did 44% voters of Elbian put a cross by the names of the PGC and the NPP, parties who had campained in the area on an anti-scientology ticket, for fear of reprecussions? Of course not, they put the cross by our names because they were tired of the constant threats, intimidation and violence they faced daily from the so-called church. Dranlandians do not hate the Scientology church for their beliefs, their anger was created by the oppression they were under by the church for decades and Theta policies and initiatives which harmed other communities for the benefit of the "chosen few" who supported their religion. That's why the PGC are planning a range of initiatives in Elbian to re-generate the areas made barren by Theta rule. That is the only way to rid ourselves of the tensions in the area, this bill will do nothing more than give Theta and the Scientology church more weapons to use against their opponents and the citizens of Dranland who do not believe in their cult. |
| Date | 21:55:04, April 23, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | The term "cult" is generally used as a hateful snarl word that is intended to intentionally devalue people and the new religious groups that they have chosen to follow. The term often creates fear and loathing among the public, and contributes greatly to religious intolerance in Dranland. The word "cult," particularly as used by the media, carries a heavy emotional content. The term suggests that this is a group that you should detest, avoid, and fear. In reality, the only "crime" of most "cults" is that they they hold different religious beliefs from whomever is doing the attacking. For example, many conservative Christian counter-cult groups consider The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS; the main Mormon church) to be a cult that is tinged with Gnosticism and teaches beliefs which conflict with historic Christianity. Meanwhile, the LDS teaches that Christianity took a wrong turn in the second century CE and abandoned most of the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. They regard their own denomination as the true Christian church. Who is the cult and who is the mainline movement depends upon one's viewpoint. |
| Date | 22:24:29, April 23, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | If your defenition of cult is correct and that a cult is what a member of one religion calls another then I would refer to all religions as cults. However my defenition of a cult is a 'religion' which is nothing more of a sham which abuses its own followers (financially or physically). It now seems clear that Theta sees "cult" as a term which would incite religious hatred and therefore be a criminal act under this new law. This proves the fear that I stated at the start, that the only purpose of this law is to protect the Scientology cult, and therefore Theta, from attack and condemnation. I would like to point your attentiuon towards the previous PGC statement and repeat that the only way to end the cultural tensions in Dranland is to bring the living standards of the rest of the community up to the standards granted to Scientologists under the previous administration. This bill has nothing to do with solving our current crisis, it will only serve to intensify it. |
| Date | 22:55:25, April 23, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | You claim that a "cult" is a sham religion which abuses it's followers, but therein lies the problem. Define a "sham religion". What makes one religion valid but the next one not? And your view of an abuse may well be the informed. voluntary decision of a free-thinking adherent. To attempt to make a distinction between a religion and the word "cult" is foolish, as modern definitions are entirely subjective and will generally boil down to the inherent attitude the person has towards the group as a whole. One person's cult is another's religion. An alternative definition is that a cult is a religion which you happen to dislike. It is derogatory and defamatory, and has little use outside the realm of religious mudslinging. "When someone uses the word 'cult,' it usually says more about them than the group," J. Gordon Melton, founder and director of The Institute for the Study of Terran Religion. |
| Date | 22:58:14, April 23, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | No, you are wrong. I am expanding on the religious argument because it was requested. Incitement to racial hatred seems like a logical offense. I am simply putting forward the reasoning why, especially in this current climate, incitement to religious hatred is too. |
| Date | 12:45:35, April 24, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | Then let's split the two up to seperate bills. Seeing as incitment to racial hatred is a "logical offence" (Although the Kilt party will disagree with you) while, clearly, religious hatred is a more contreversdial issue. Delete this bill and put forward a seperate religious hatred bill. |
| Date | 14:34:52, April 24, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | I will but we may as well keep this thread until this matter is resolved as the debate so far has been of great interest, even on an international level. Would you care to respond on my previous post on the inherent problem of subjective interpretation of what makes a "cult"? |
| Date | 19:36:35, April 24, 2006 CET | From | National Progressive Party | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | Some religions must be hated. Any good patriot of Dranland would protect themselves against a religion which grows too powerful and wishes to retain political power all for itself. |
| Date | 21:13:13, April 25, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | I agree that the most common use of the word "cult" is as a derogatary term for something (not neccessarily an actual religion) you dislike. Prof Melton however has, and always will be, a fool. His work is clearly influenced by his Scientologist views. Calling a "movement" (for a want of a better neutral term) a cult is like calling a Vegitarian's views "stupid", yes it's the opinion of the man making the commnet, but it would be wrong to criminalise it. |
| Date | 14:47:33, April 26, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | Afro-Dranians have been calling out for the criminalisation of the words "nigger" and "coon", for decades. We need radical decisions made so that things actually get done around here. The current government is not serving the people - it conservatively runs the country, making few necessary changes. I call for a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister! |
| Date | 12:47:00, April 27, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | Afro-dranians are a race and therefore protected by THE PGC CREATED Racial Hatred Act which has already become law in Dranland. The Prime Minister has the full support of his party and, it seems, his cabinet collegues. The only people complaining are Theta, who are still bitter after being left out of the Grand Coalition. Sort out your issues Theta, or the voters will deliver you yet another strong rebuke come July. |
| Date | 14:17:14, April 27, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | We serve the people!! And the people love us for it!! Tell Y Brenin Arthur to start packing his bags. |
| Date | 14:11:21, April 30, 2006 CET | From | Plaid Gyfreithiol Cymru | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | We would like to remind all parties that the provision against racial hatred have already become part of Dranian law. The only relevant parts of this bill is the religious hatred part. |
| Date | 14:28:22, April 30, 2006 CET | From | New Theta | To | Debating the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill |
| Message | I'd hope that all people who supported the racial bill would also support this, as to oppose it would be total hypocrisy. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 52 | ||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 306 | ||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 42 |
| Random fact: Bill descriptions must be in English, or at least include a full English translation. Bill titles may appear in a language that is appropriate to the nation and are not required to be translated into English. |
| Random quote: "Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." - Mahatma Gandhi |