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Bill: The grand Reformation of Schools
Details
Submitted by[?]: Protectorate Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2070
Description[?]:
| In an effort to establish a consistant program for our children we suggest removing it from governmental control. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Education for children under adult age.
Old value:: Education is compulsory and has to happen at school.
Current: Education is compulsory and has to happen at school.
Proposed: Education is compulsory, but home schooling is permitted.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The education system.
Old value:: Education is entirely public and free; private schools are banned.
Current: There is a free public education system alongside private schools.
Proposed: Education is private, but the government issues vouchers to pay for the schooling of disadvantaged children.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 23:34:34, June 15, 2005 CET | From |  Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | sounds good |
| Date | 03:02:28, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Independent Combat Weapons Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | I agree with Artical 1 but not Article 2.All schools will be private? |
| Date | 03:43:31, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Social Republican Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | ICWPC, I agree. Big name, even when initialed. |
| Date | 07:47:11, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Leviathan Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Regarding home schooling, as was noted in previous discussions on this issue, schools are more than just places to send children to learn discrete information. Schools serve to teach children social skills, to learn group and cooperative learning skills, as a safety net for children at risk, as a place to learn how to interact with heterogeneous populations. These are things that, categorically, cannot be achieved through home schooling. |
| Date | 11:44:22, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | and as is already established through evidenciary support on many occasions by the FRP: home schooling can achieve all those things and often does it better. ooc: stats show that homeschooled children in college show better leadership skills than their private and public school counterparts. (US stats) ic: levp is once again supporting the teachers union to produce shoddy education at the expense of children. and he calls it fair. |
| Date | 16:37:21, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | We are currently supporting all private schools in an attempt to remove the political aspect that has plagued our system for generations. Our history has been one of opening and closing schools every few years resulting in students spending more time adjusting to the changes rather then learning. |
| Date | 18:12:26, June 16, 2005 CET | From | Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | of course we suppot totally, we would also support joint public and private schools. in any case, the advantage of an all private system is that there would be more money in the school system overall because the wealthy would pay more money than the poor. in public school systems, that would not happen the same way. This also eliminates the problem of class system, which worries many of the communist parties here, but unlike the public system, there is money to go around so students get more lab time and a better education. teachers have to work harder to get a job and there is increased flexibility for students and parents who want more control over the education of their children. Unlike the levp, we believe that parents know better than the government how to raise children. |
| Date | 00:54:32, June 17, 2005 CET | From | LibCom Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Opening and closing schools every few years? When have our public schools ever closed? As for more money in the school system, we'd rather ensure that by taxing the wealthy. |
| Date | 02:07:16, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | We where not speaking of the public schools and do not have evidence on them, but it can be imagined that when the private schools where opened this decreased the need for public schools so some may have closed. However the private schools where clearly being closed. As for taxing the wealthy to pay for everything, keep doing that and you will find they are no longer there. What the LibCom party does not realize is a private education program achieves the same "taxing of the wealthy" without the protest from the wealthy. But of course the LibCom party will rather they be forced to hand over their money at gunpoint so they can feel they have achieved the revolution they dream about. Probably would like them shot afterwards just for good measure. |
| Date | 15:50:27, June 17, 2005 CET | From | LibCom Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | No, actually, we'd shoot them first and then take their money. It's easier that way. |
| Date | 16:14:40, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | But is it as fun? |
| Date | 20:05:09, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | hehehehe |
| Date | 20:06:10, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | but seriously, the PP makes a fair point, in private schools, the rich pay far more than the poor and don't complain. furthermore, that wealth gets translated into making it easier for poorer people to go to private schools. |
| Date | 21:56:49, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Independent Combat Weapons Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | I think it's time vote now |
| Date | 22:14:04, June 17, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | OOC: too close to election, nothing can be put up less then 8 months to election (except cabinet) since otherwise they just get sent back to debate at the election time. Voting doesn't close for a bill for 8 months and if there is an election prior to that the voting is stopped. |
| Date | 22:45:39, June 17, 2005 CET | From | LibCom Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | The problem is that rich people tend to send their kids to school with other rich kids, and since each private school is funded independently, money from the rich schools never gets to the poor schools. So the rich get a higher standard of education, and class divisions are exacerbated. And if you try to even it out with vouchers, then you're back to taxing the rich, and you're still exacerbating class divisions, and if other privatised services are anything to go by, you're getting less for your money. |
| Date | 19:22:23, June 18, 2005 CET | From | Free Reform Coalition (FRP) | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | finally, someone willing to present reasoned arguments. thanks libcom, those are definitely fair points and do represent the problems of a vouchers system. we would normally support a dual system of public and private schools, but the voucher has benefits on its own too. As for trends and tendencies, lets be careful about the reasons for them. a rational parent will send their child to the best available school within budget, location etc. private schools that are good tend to have more rich students because they have easy access to the school because they are richer. but its not that rich people want to stick around each other as much. ooc: public schools in most countries will only allow students to go there if they live in the 'school district.' vouchers get around that problem by trying to bridge the gap between access and money. it makes it feasible for a student to travel a longer distance to school, or for a family to move to an area close to the school. with vouchers, the idea is that a family has a clear economic incentive for their children to do well in school: they are paying for the school. why is this important? because it is a well documented fact that families that support education and hard work have children that do better in school and are more productive in later life, which is a benefit to the economy in the long. thus it can be argued that vouchers are a benefit to the country in the long run because they get more families active in the education of their child. some of you may argue that a parent will have an incentive for what is best for their child all the time and vouchers don't change that. the first part is true, but vouchers do because they increase the options available to a parent in terms of school choice while also providing a real link between them and the schools. second: vouchers bring economically disadvantaged children into schools that would normally be homogeneous economically and culturally. third: (and ooc) in the US most private schools do not even worry about economic issues; if they let you into a school you can go there and they work out a financial aid package that suits you personally. this is a big part of the american college system. private schools can do that, whereas if public schools do that, there is a conflict of interest. their are more arguments for and against this issue of course. but we just think those are the most important ones. |
| Date | 18:24:40, June 20, 2005 CET | From | LibCom Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Hmm. So vouchers enable poor families to move into rich areas where the good schools are? Is the honourable member on crack, perchance? |
| Date | 03:03:40, June 21, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | we are curious what services LibCom is using as the basis for the arguement we will get less for our money on. Secondly, I believe FRP point was that students are not locked into a school district but rather can travel a bit to a better school. This is more relevant for urban systems where there are many districts within a short distance of a students home. Rural students will still be limited but now have the option for perhaps boarding schools for those interested in that option. We leave the FRP to correct our errors if we misinterpreted their stance. |
| Date | 06:31:24, June 21, 2005 CET | From | Social Republican Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Dude!!!! Proposal 2 is killing number 1!!! |
| Date | 06:41:12, June 21, 2005 CET | From | Protectorate Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Our government has shown it incapable of educating our children, the next generation, in a responsible, moral and reverent manner. It should loose any influence on the education system until such time it can. |
| Date | 10:16:43, June 21, 2005 CET | From | Leviathan Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Let us translate the PP's logics for the rest of the Assembly, as a public service. Because the right wing's attempst to return private education to Malivia have been consistently rolled back by the Assembly, as good an indicator that the public does not approve of private schooling as there is going to be, they realize they can't acheive their desired ends by convincing a majority of representatives that their system is best. Therefore, clearly, the government is incapable of the administering the nation's education system, and so because the government won't do what the PP wants it to do, we should throw our education into the market and hope it turns out for the best. This is the epitome of sour grapes and nothing more than a temper tantrum on the part of the PP. |
| Date | 04:57:05, June 22, 2005 CET | From | Social Republican Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | Let us translate the LeviP's logic for the rest of the Assembly, as a public service. Obviously, Logics is the right word. Perhaps if he had gone to a private school, this would have been adressed. "Becuase private education has inconsistantly rolled back" is what you need to have, as it had been accepted a couple of times. Clearly the government knows what is best for everyone, seeing as you are a part of the government. This is the epitome of sarcasm and nothing more than another immature outburst on part of the LeviP. OOC - Another one bites his words! IC - If the public doesn't want private education, they won't go to private schools, so it will fail. So in the end, it doesn't matter whether or not there is private education. |
| Date | 09:46:21, June 22, 2005 CET | From | Leviathan Party | To | Debating the The grand Reformation of Schools |
| Message | We would like to congrulate the SRP for again removing all meaning from the world 'socialist.' |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 38 | ||||||
| no | Total Seats: 45 | ||||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 17 |
| Random fact: "Kubrk" is a Jelbic word that has the colloquial meaning "old man" or "geezer". |
| Random quote: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx |