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Bill: Min Wage
Details
Submitted by[?]: Free Conservative Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2223
Description[?]:
| No more minumum wage. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The nation's policy on minimum wage regulation.
Old value:: There shall be a minimum wage at a level considered a "living wage," well above the poverty line for a full time worker.
Current: There is no provision for a minimum wage.
Proposed: There is no provision for a minimum wage.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:06:09, May 02, 2006 CET | From |  Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | Wage is between a man and his employer; we have no place. |
| Date | 20:28:39, May 02, 2006 CET | From | Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | We strongly reject the proposal. Large corporations primarily work towards gaining maximum profits for their shareholders, yet it is the blood of the workers that oils the machine of trade. |
| Date | 00:26:05, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | Then those workers can leave. Pay is between an employee and his employer; do not put government where it does not belong. |
| Date | 01:40:06, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | The government is a force to protect the rights and interests of our citizens. Where this is threated, the government must intervene. |
| Date | 02:41:40, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Jelbék Zemojad Lofrkad Prta | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | We oppose. A minimum wage is essential in ensuring equality and keeping the rich/poor divide as small as possible. Furthermore, the DLP believes in the rights of the Jelbania's workers. This is not between 'man and employer', this is a concern for a government with a social conscience which wishes to provide well for its citizens. |
| Date | 03:07:44, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | A living wage should always be a guarantee for Jelbanians. |
| Date | 04:16:30, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | So why should we, the government, guaruntee it? |
| Date | 14:01:11, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Jelbék Zemojad Lofrkad Prta | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | The people elected us in order that we might guaranteee their job security, a good average income, and to provide for the welfare of every Jelbanian citizen. That is one of the reasons government exists at all. |
| Date | 21:09:09, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | Did they? I am sure some did, but not everyone is like that. If someone wants higher pay, they can deal with it. After all, they have three good options: 1) Simply talk with the employer. Some are reasonable, some are not. For the ones that are not: 2) Rally with the others who want higher pay and strike. That right for them is currently ensured and they cannot get fired. 3) If worst comes to worst, they can leave. Other employers may pay more. 3 good options. They do not need protecting. |
| Date | 21:41:42, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | That new line of 'reasoning' is both speculative and naive. Which incentive is more appealing to big business? a) Voluntarily offer our workers a good minimum wage, eating into our profits even though it isn't law. b) Don't do the above because there's no rule saying we have to, the workforce has little choice anyway given that all other businesses are in the same boat, and it is a great opportunity to increase profitability for our shareholders. in specific response to the 'options' mentioned by the CP 1) "Some are reasonable, some or not". If this is the case when the minimum wage IS in place to protect workers and set standards, then how many more will fall into the "not reasonable" category when they are given free reign? 2) "Rally with others". How many others are likely to be in a position to rally with them and strike when they can't afford to take that time off work because the wage they were making whilst working was already insufficient? 3) "Other employers may pay more". That sounds distinctly like a vague, ill-considered afterthough to us. |
| Date | 23:21:12, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | "2) "Rally with others". How many others are likely to be in a position to rally with them and strike when they can't afford to take that time off work because the wage they were making whilst working was already insufficient?" Well, you gave the strikers complete power over the employers, so I am sure they will have no trouble. If there are no other people to rally with, then what if the wage is actually fair? |
| Date | 23:28:45, May 03, 2006 CET | From | Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | The GMP was not founded when the current legislation on striking was put in place and feels that the CP has generally missed the point. To strike involves taking unpaid time off work which is often financially testing enough for those conscientious workers to do under current conditions. The new proposed system would make it virtually impossible in many cases and therefore makes another positive law - which is designed to protect our workers - redundant. |
| Date | 03:14:06, May 04, 2006 CET | From | Jelbék Zemojad Lofrkad Prta | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | To the GMP: The Conservative Party spouts hogwash and spin. Strikers do not have complete power over employers. The Conservatives refer to Parliament's rejection of their bill to allow employers to sack participants in a strike. |
| Date | 03:25:55, May 04, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | Ok, there is also something else I did not mention. There are people besides workers who want their fair pay, comditions, benifits, etc. Example: Meat packing industry in the 1800s. Conditions and pay were terrible for the workers. People did not like that. A system was developed so that companies kinder to employees would get a white label. People bought things with the labels. Workers are not alone here. Also, hiring of workers is remarkably like free market. If a workers get paid an amount of money too small, other workers to not go into that field of work. Demand for workers of this proffession goes up, and so does pay. This wage will be considered "fair." That is how the system works; the government is not ANYWHERE in that system. The system does, however, take time. Just be patient and the people will work things out themselves. Another thing: I really do not know anyone part- or fulltime getting paid minimum wage. And coming from a grocery bagger, that is saying something. What does that mean? It means that the min wage set by the government really does not matter; people as a whole decide what a fair wage is. Besides that, if a full time worker gets paid min wage, he is in the wrong line of work. |
| Date | 04:14:51, May 04, 2006 CET | From | Jelbék Zemojad Lofrkad Prta | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | ooc: I know a great many people working for the minimum wage, which is, incidentally, too low. These people were working for less money before 1998, when the minimum wage was introduced. |
| Date | 19:31:49, May 04, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | And what do those people do for a living. |
| Date | 19:32:02, May 04, 2006 CET | From | Free Conservative Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | ? |
| Date | 23:29:49, May 05, 2006 CET | From | Growth and Prosperity Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | MInimum wages simply restricts the number of jobs by reducing the opportunities acting as a price floor, and therefore creating a deadweight loss because supply and demand will not meet at the efficient equilibrium point. To quote wikipedia: "When there is a minimum wage law, a surplus of labor is created (more people are looking for jobs than can find jobs). With this price floor, those who can find jobs, win (they were being paid a smaller wage, and now they get a higher wage), but there is also an increase in unemployment. Because the supply of labor tends to be relatively inelastic, the sum of total wages paid to all workers usually raises if a price floor is set even if fewer people are being employed. Still there remains an excess supply (of labor) that the government must deal with. The most direct way of doing that is for the government to simply buy the excess supply - which, in the case of labor, means creating more jobs in the public sector (for example by starting new public projects, such as building roads or schools) and hiring people to do those jobs. In addition, there are also a number of macroeconomic policies that can reduce unemployment." |
| Date | 23:33:43, May 05, 2006 CET | From | Growth and Prosperity Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | If you want to guarantee a minimum standard of living to all Jelbanians, it's more efficient to abolish minimum wage (which would increase taxes since there will be more jobs and economic activity) and distribute cash benefits to anyone who is below the poverty level to the chosen standard of living. This minimizes deadweight loss and benefits all Jelbanians. |
| Date | 05:11:32, May 06, 2006 CET | From | Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the Min Wage |
| Message | "Both the existing economic order, and too many of the projects advanced for reconstructing it, break down through their neglect of the truism that, since even quite common men have souls, no increase in material wealth will compensate for arrangements which insult their self-respect and impair their freedom" A government's primary role should be to look after the welfare of it's citizens not the welfare of big business' pockets. We warn against the common mistake of capitalist idealist that tend to assume government to be a sideshow of economics and not the other way round. It is an irresponsible perspective; our citizens are not a quantitative formula to be typed into a calculator. 1) Jelbanians aspire to do more with their lives than just live off hand-outs. They seek long-term opportunities in work. 2) An overtly capitalist driven society is an exclusive profit-driven society by definition. A society which actively polarises classes on the basis of income. The workers, as the foundation on which profit is built, deserve to share from economic growth proportionally, not to be punished by it. 3) The incentive to offer workers more and better levels of training in born from a minimum wage, in turn this investment will increase human capital. 4) A minimum wage protects workers from exploitation. 5) A minimum wage protects vulnerable workers against discrimination. 6) A minimum wage protects against monopolism. 7) A minimum wage reduces absenteeism and increases motivation in the workplace. 8) A minimum wage reduces costly worker turnover. 9) The transition between welfare benefits and work is eased as a minimum wage rewards work effort. 10) A minimum wage is about valuing work properly not offering charity. 11) A minimum wage increases the purchase power of the low-income workers themselves. 12) A minimum wage increases taxation revenue; a steady and guaranteed revenue. 13) The guaranteed availability of a minimum wage will permit citizens to take and stay in further education, ultimately aiding the long-term prosperity of all as skilled human capital. 14) Every Jelbanian citizen should be guaranteed a working income to live from, without being expected to take on more than one full-time employment. (OOC: apologies that some of the points are a little brief, the GMP had a bit of an accident with the delete key last time around) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 268 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 357 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: In cases where players have failed to clearly and accurately reference their nation's RP laws in the "Bills under debate" section, Moderation will rule them invalid if a challenge is made to their validity. |
| Random quote: "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles." - Ayn Rand |