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Bill: Personal Educational Initiative Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: National Centrist Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2071
Description[?]:
| To ensure that all those wishing to educate themselves on any given subject have all the materials required to do so free of charge, it is hereby proposed that the Likatonian government establish an extensive series of libraries nationwide. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy towards the funding of libraries.
Old value:: Books may only be obtained through private dealers.
Current: The national government controls a vast and comprehensive system of public libraries.
Proposed: The national government controls a vast and comprehensive system of public libraries.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 02:53:49, June 22, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | This is a cultural, educational, and entrepreneurial undertaking - there are countless people who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps through hard work and studying. This will be good for our economy, good for our culture, and good for our future. |
| Date | 03:21:37, June 22, 2005 CET | From | People's Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | Libraries in an age where book readership is down? Really whats wrong with private libraries? they aren't really expensive...and they get a lot more people in then do public libraries |
| Date | 19:34:26, June 22, 2005 CET | From | Proletariat Revolution Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | Statistics. If you don't, I can show you those from a publi library system that is overhauling itself. |
| Date | 04:35:07, June 23, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | I have never seen a private library in my life. The very concept sounds preposterous. No one would want to run it. They'd be providing a free service to the public and... oh, yeah, a free service. It'd either be charged (thus limitting books to those who can read) or it'd go out of business (thus forcing the government to take over or demolish the library). The end result is either that the lower classes cannot educate themselves (damages freedom of opportunity) or that the libraries become public anyways. |
| Date | 05:23:20, June 23, 2005 CET | From | People's Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | No you get charged when you rent books, the same way as do when you rent DVDs Books may only be read by people who can read in the first place. If you meant those who can pay...well public libraries often charge too..and you underestimate the vitality of the free market. If theres a profit it can be done. In an internet age you don't need libraries to guarentee freedom of info..its all online |
| Date | 09:26:43, June 23, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | I suppose it sounds feasible. Everyone can read, that's why we have a public educational system. That objection is invalid. I've never heard of a public library charging for anything but late fees and the occasional book sale. I know that there would probably be a market, but information is not something that should be restricted to those who can afford it. That creates an exploitative oligarchy. A truly capitalist society grants everyone who wishes to take responsibility for themself the opportunity to succeed - equality of opportunity. That's part of what this encourages. Very few books can be found online, and good computers are still somewhat expensive, not to mention the upgrade costs of keeping them current. Besides, nothing compares to the look and feel of a real book. Reading entire books online is a source of great eye-strain; I've done so before, have you ever tried it? |
| Date | 10:56:17, June 23, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Party for Equality | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | paying libraries? that is something I have never come across before. sure, you have to pay to rent the music, but the books? I support this bill as it is. |
| Date | 07:00:15, June 24, 2005 CET | From | People's Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | I don't think a paying library is keeping out people who are poor. Here in India ( my home country incidentally) there are private libraries thats charge as low as Rs 500 ($10) for a years memebership. In a country where per capita income is around $500. Incidentally, oppurtunity is not created by govt- it is created by the people. You can only become an entrepreneuer, when you have backing and financial support. This comes from closely knit families, from charitable trusts etc thats all in the private sector. Even education- the majority of aid goes to rich people and not to the poor or middle class. Thats why despite all the aid to education from the govt, the number of middle class kids in unis across america is falling. thats why this policy makes no sense to me - those who could use this material can afford to pay for it, whereas those who can't afford it have little use for it since they aren't financially strong enough to take advantage of the knowledge therein. These are simply monuments to govt waste |
| Date | 09:19:10, June 24, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | I hate to say it, but you're wrong. Opportunity comes from the people, NOT from the wealth of the rich. Education and determination are the primary cause of entrepreneurship. People who have knowledge and the will to use it can go a long ways. Many, many people have become entrepreneurs on their own backing. This is, so far as I know, the very definition of an entrepreneur. You should realize, determinated people have toppled entire empires that held them down. Starting a business is nothing by comparison. People who don't know a thing about what they're doing just create those commonly heard sob stories of riches-to-rags. Of course, you hear those same stories out of really wealthy and suddenly bankrupt people just as often. This kicks a big hole in your theory. Big money and the knowledge to manage it properly aren't the same at all. Besides, if you think that we aid the rich too much in education, then you should be in favor of more public schooling and reforming the subsidies to target the poor - two policies that, so far as I know, you have not embraced. OOC: I don't know what you've heard, but the public educational system in America is frightfully bad. I'm part of it, I know firsthand. It's utterly worthless - and the government keeps CUTTING funding to it. The US government has education as a bottom priority. |
| Date | 09:20:23, June 24, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | Err, determined* - my typing slipped in an empassioned moment. |
| Date | 17:05:30, June 24, 2005 CET | From | People's Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | I'm truly sorry you feel that way... Anyway if you read carefully at no point did I say opportunity comes from the wealthy- I said it comes from the people. What does that mean? It means you have to have a solid basis...some financial security before you start a business..you don't go from begging bowl to billions of dollars. The basis from which you start is usually middle class..a double income household where one partner works so the other can experiment with business. Or where your parents work and you have the resources to take a risk. Ask Michael Dell or Bill Gates...they started off middle class. No poor guy ever landed a loan to start a business...you must work for a while and have some assets to put on the line. Education is a big moneyspinner but that doesn't mean you can't be anything if you're uneducated... The point is that if you're living a hand to mouth existence you don't have much time for sitting around in a library. You need education not random books. And if you're not living a hand to mouth existence, then you can afford the price of renting privately. The govt can always have a joint program with private sector libraries to have book scholarships whereby the poor can have access to cheap books. What need is there for the govt to run and build the library itself? As far as education goes-I came up with an excellent alternative that meets the needs of the poor, but that was shot down by your party. Given your fanatical belief in replacing real teachers with bureaucrats we fear we have little reason to try again. |
| Date | 20:32:32, June 24, 2005 CET | From | National Centrist Party | To | Debating the Personal Educational Initiative Act |
| Message | What excellent alternative did you bring up? The one about subsidizing higher education for the poor? As I said then, I would support that - except you removed it after I pointed out that it would cost /more/. I'd say that it was shot down by your party, rather than mine. You were afraid to spend money on educating the poor; don't blame that on me. And there are many stories of poor people beating the odds that they start in. Read: immigrants. Many of our most vital companies weren't founded by born-in-Likaton citizens. -------- We don't replace teachers with bureaucrats, we ensure that they actually get something halfway resembling funding. Many governments stick education at the bottom of the budget, and we're one of the many parties worldwide dedicated to changing that. It's called equality of opportunity, and it's a cornerstone of the truly free market. -------- If you want to kill expenses, take apart the expenditures that discourage individual responsibility. You'll note that this whole initiative here -encourages- personal responsibility; it's intended so that people who want to do something for themselves will have the opportunity. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 93 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 30 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 77 |
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