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Bill: Cult of the individual
Details
Submitted by[?]: Hobrazian Peoples Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2255
Description[?]:
| We should establish a consensus on morals of society. With the rising individualism in our collective and socialist society we should make sure that noone falls back to egoistic interests. This should prevent the restraints of capitalism that so many hobrazians has suffered under and still exist in the subconcious. We need to get rid of this egoism and restore pure individualism in our socialist society. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The right to gamble.
Old value:: Gambling is legal, but only in private homes and casinos with special licences.
Current: Gambling is illegal unless taking place in a licensed casino.
Proposed: Gambling is illegal unless taking place in a licensed casino.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The right for a person to prostitute himself or herself.
Old value:: Prostitution is legal and a recognized profession.
Current: Prostitution is illegal.
Proposed: Prostitution is illegal.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religious organizations are not permitted to actively promote themselves or advertise, however evangelism is permitted by individuals.
Current: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Proposed: Religions are not permitted to promote themselves or advertise in any manner whatsoever.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Sale of tobacco products.
Old value:: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Current: Only adults may purchase tobacco.
Proposed: The sale of tobacco products is prohibited.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:57:09, July 14, 2006 CET | From |  We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | None of this relates directly with socialism. How does making protitution illegal help socialism? How does banning the sale of tobacco support socialism? If these laws were introduced there would be a backlash against socialism which, whether other parties believe it or not, we believe would be a bad idea. Though not as extreme in our views as many, we do support many of the socialist beliefs, but these laws would do nothing but promote anger in the community and would, in no way, improve the socialists cause, nor would they improve "morals" which are, in their very nature, changeable at best. |
| Date | 22:30:13, July 14, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | We accept the fact that CSP are ready to listen to arguments and that their morals are changeable. We would like to point out, that the HPP believe that the metioned paragraphs actually fights capitalism and prevent its return to Hobrazia. Our stance on common interest might not be the same and we are aware of the civil liberty stance of CSP but we believe that some civil liberties is only produced and reproduced to promote and reproduce capitalism. Liberty is freedom from restraints of capitalism and not the illusion of civil liberties, which CSP advocates, that will lead to a slide towards egoistic interests and a fallback to capitalism. |
| Date | 22:38:45, July 14, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | sorry. CSP should be read as WSS!P in the previous statement :-). sorry to CSP for that mistake. |
| Date | 23:18:26, July 14, 2006 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | Banning prostitution will stop capitalism, how? All it will do is make those people who are prostitutes, and use prostitutes go underground. In this respect the protection already provided to those workers is removed, increasing the risks to them, as well as increasing the risks to overall public health. In fact, none of these issues stop capitalism in anyway, moreover they only reduce civil rights. Banning people from gambling at home doesn't stop capitalism, but does tell people what they can and can't do in their own homes. Banning the sale of tobacco doesn't stop people using tobacco, nor does it stop capitalism. What it does do is stop people working on farms (whether they be private or publicly owned) as there is no longer any need for the crop. It also makes criminals out of people who would otherwise be law abiding citizens. Liberty is the freedom to do what people wish and whilst we support limiting some liberties in order to prevent public harm, we must not let those choice completely override the ability of the individual to make decisions about their own lives, even if they should occasionally make decisions that invariably harm themselves. The government should not be involved in spelling out morality for the people. |
| Date | 23:19:05, July 14, 2006 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | "sorry to CSP for that mistake." - But not to us? :-( |
| Date | 23:26:17, July 14, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | In a society with pure socialism there is no need for anyone to sell him/herself. Everybody will be provided with needs to suffice and therefore such degrating and perverted capitalistic things as prostitution will not be needed. All those needs that WSS!P advocates is false needs produced by capitalistic interests. Furthermore we would like to question WSS!Ps sincerity when regarding their willingness to limit some liberties in order to prevent public harm as WSS!P before has voted against several bills including proposals to protect public harm and common interests. |
| Date | 23:26:56, July 14, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | We will here provide and excuse to WSS!P for calling them CSP and vice versa :-) |
| Date | 23:41:26, July 14, 2006 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | "Furthermore we would like to question WSS!Ps sincerity when regarding their willingness to limit some liberties in order to prevent public harm as WSS!P before has voted against several bills including proposals to protect public harm and common interests." - We would be interested to find out which proposals the HPP believes we have voted against that they feel would only protect the public in order for us to defend our record or, conversely, to make ammends. "In a society with pure socialism there is no need for anyone to sell him/herself. Everybody will be provided with needs to suffice and therefore such degrating and perverted capitalistic things as prostitution will not be needed." - Even within socialism people are required to work. A general rule, that seems to be ignored by most, is that: "From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs." Now, you seem to be following the second part of this, but are completely disregarding the first. "From each, according to his ability". Now, someones ability may well be an erotic dancer, an escort, or even a prostitute. In this way they provide according to their ability, they then receive that according to their needs. This is communist theory, strangely close to capitalism when thought about, no? "All those needs that WSS!P advocates is false needs produced by capitalistic interests. " - You make that statement, but at no point do you disprove anything we have said, and so we repeat. "None of this relates directly with socialism." and "The government should not be involved in spelling out morality for the people." |
| Date | 23:57:55, July 14, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | We have proposed several bills with nudity bans to prevent public interests and public opinions has supported the HPP stance. WSS!P voted against. We believe that if the only capability you have is selling your body you should be allowed to transfer to the need section of the paragraph. Not everyone should be forced to work "according to his ability (especially when regarding prostitution etc.) but should be allowed state funding untill the ability is for the common good. Gambling is no way a natural human action but a way of spending hard earned money in an unnatural and stupid way promoting capitalism. |
| Date | 03:16:28, July 15, 2006 CET | From | National Imperial Hobrazian Front | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | Nay to articles 2-4. Article 2: Prostitution should remain legal because people will always sell and buy sex. Ergo, it is the responsibility of the government to legalize so that social parasites such as pimps can not manipulate women. It is a woman's right to do with her body as she pleases. While we do not agree prostitution on a moral level, it will happen regardless of whether it is legal or not. Through regulation we can ensure the women's safety and provide health regulations, such as the use of condoms to combat sexually transmitted diseases. Article 3: Why? If someone wants to put something into their body and are aware of the consequences, who are we to stop them? Article 3: Big no. First of all, religions are currently taxed as companies yet cannot advertise as other companies may. How can we tax something that does not have a fair chance to promote itself? I'll be damned if a priest or preacher sits behind bars for sharing his personal views on spirituality. Disgusting. |
| Date | 03:17:17, July 15, 2006 CET | From | National Imperial Hobrazian Front | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | The last point was supposed to be about article 4... my bad. |
| Date | 11:07:22, July 15, 2006 CET | From | National Imperial Hobrazian Front | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | Oh, and a hats off to WSS!P for such a well thought-out Marxist argument. We know that's not where your party stands, but you can still argue it. The CSP finds flaws in your argument (as I am sure you do in ours, which is neither here nor there) but we respect you for arguing inside of a socialist paradigm. Nevertheless, we will back you on blocking this bill. |
| Date | 19:46:28, July 15, 2006 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | We do not see it as an ability for the common good to sell your body. What good does this do, especially when most of the costumers in this buissiness are maried men or men in relationships. This is weird arguments we hear from CSP and WSS!P. it is not an ability to sell your body, it is a capitalistic imposed and false kind of freedom. The HPP do not believe in religion as a commercial and missionearing society. We would rather see that people themselves are educated through the schoolsystem and then choose whether they would like to join such organisations. regarding the paragraph on tobacco this is a health proposal to save money in the health care system. If the state is to operate a health system we should also have the right to decide which diseases and ilnesses we should take care of and prevent some if possible. We hope that CSP and WSS!P will see the sense in this bill. |
| Date | 21:16:37, July 15, 2006 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Cult of the individual |
| Message | It is the persons choice whether they "sell their body" or not. They have utilisable skills and are using them to the best of their ability in order to gain an income. What you suggest is that these people do nothing and merely live off state benefits, which benefit no-one. This is not capitalism, this is socialism. We also question where your information about who uses these services - "most of the costumers in this buissiness are maried men or men in relationships" - or why that has any relevence to the points being made. Freedom is the right to do what one wishes when one wishes and though we agree to limit some freedoms, we do not feel that this is one that requires further limitation. "We have proposed several bills with nudity bans to prevent public interests and public opinions has supported the HPP stance. WSS!P voted against." - We voted against because our supporters supported that position. Those bills highlighted by the HPP have little or effect on "public harm" and as such we have maintained the position that we have. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 89 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 311 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: The voters enjoy active parties who take upon themselves the initiative to create laws. |
| Random quote: "Civil disobedience. . . is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience. . Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem." - Howard Zinn |