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Bill: Involuntary Information Bill IV
Details
Submitted by[?]: Abandoned NFC Headquarters
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2073
Description[?]:
For reasons previously stated. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The use of torture for obtaining information.
Old value:: Torture is never allowed.
Current: Torture is never allowed.
Proposed: Suspects can only be tortured under grave emergencies where the information is vital.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
Date | 00:17:55, June 27, 2005 CET | From | International Socialist Party | To | Debating the Involuntary Information Bill IV |
Message | Only if they are Fascist or Capitalists |
Date | 00:25:38, June 27, 2005 CET | From | Democratic Socialists of Endralon | To | Debating the Involuntary Information Bill IV |
Message | The idea that a state has the right to torture its citizens under any circumstances is utterly abhorrent and absurd and must be rejected by anyone who values democracy and human rights in Endralon. |
Date | 00:55:41, June 27, 2005 CET | From | Abandoned NFC Headquarters | To | Debating the Involuntary Information Bill IV |
Message | 'Democracy and human rights'. If a terrorist plot is uncovered, must we merely stick that terrorist in jail? If the lives of our citizens are risked, we should be able to take measures to resist torture. The proper response to difficulty and terrorism is not to retreat, but to prevail. Torture is horrible but necessary in today's world. |
Date | 02:31:35, June 27, 2005 CET | From | Democratic Socialists of Endralon | To | Debating the Involuntary Information Bill IV |
Message | There is no evidence to suggest that Endralon faces any considerable terrorist threat but that is beside the point. The fact is that torture is brutal and barbaric, it is a further step towards a totalitarian society, the information gained is often false, it could be used against innocent people and it represents an unacceptable strengthening of state power. |
Date | 23:13:58, June 27, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Party | To | Debating the Involuntary Information Bill IV |
Message | Sorry to vote no on an NFC position which I can half agree with, but in practice torture provides as much bad intelligence as it does good, and has the same ethical problems as capital punishment. One widely observed effect is that suspects under torture say whatever their interrogators most want to hear, rather than the truth. This was a particular problem in Northen Ireland, and an ongoing one in Israel. The best intelligence is observation and targeted strikes once the case is clear. This also doesn't seriously infringe civil liberties. Once we've an economy, we must fund our intelligence network well! |
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Voting
Vote | Seats | ||||||
yes | Total Seats: 91 | ||||||
no |
Total Seats: 404 | ||||||
abstain | Total Seats: 164 |
Random fact: "OOC", "IC" and "IG" are commonly-used acronyms in Particracy. "OOC" refers to comments, discussions and actions which are out-of-character, meaning they are done player-to-player rather than party-to-party. "IC" refers to in-character interactions (ie. party-to-party). Similarly, "IG" means in-game, although this term may also simply refer to what happens in the actual game interface, as opposed to on the forum or elsewhere. "RP" just means "role-play". |
Random quote: "I swear to the Lord I still can't see Why Democracy means Everybody but me." - Langston Hughes, The Black Man Speaks |