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Bill: KS2282-1 Defence Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Democrat Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 2284
Description[?]:
| Vanuku needs to be proactive in defending our nation. Being reactive means we have let disaster strike and our citizens should not be put in harms way when they needn't be |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Nation's policy with regards to an intelligence agency.
Old value:: The nation has an intelligence agency, but it is limited to counter-intelligence and surveillance of other countries.
Current: The nation has an intelligence agency that is permitted by law to undertake all types of covert operations in other countries.
Proposed: The nation has an intelligence agency that is permitted by law to undertake all types of covert operations in other countries.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change National service.
Old value:: There shall be no mandatory military or civilian national service.
Current: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term in the military, but can shorten their term/forego it completely by paying a certain amount of money.
Proposed: All adults upon completion of schooling can be required in times of war to serve a term in the military.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the use of nuclear weaponry in warfare.
Old value:: The nation shall never use nuclear weapons in warfare.
Current: The nation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in warfare for any reason.
Proposed: The nation reserves the right to nuclear weapons in retaliation to a nuclear, chemical or biological attack.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 14:51:41, September 11, 2006 CET | From |  Social Devolutionist | To | Debating the KS2282-1 Defence Act |
| Message | I will merely restate my most recent comments from the Bills in which the above two articles were passed: Article 1: Spying Lets look at some real world examples, the greatest terrorist targets in the world are the US, Israel and the UK, no three countries have done more to meddle in the affairs of foreign sovereign powers than these two. Is this perhaps a coincidence? Other countries however like Japan (in modern times), New Zealand and Canada, which take a strictly non interventionist aproach despite also being western democracies have not been targeted. The coincidences again strike me as astounding. I see no reason why Vanuku needs to meddle in the affairs of other nations. I would be happy to reconsider if anyone could provide an example when it might be justified. Article 2: Conscription If our army is well equipped and well trained I see no reason why an army of 200,000 could not hold out against a much larger force. I appreciate One could just as easily ask what happens if we are attacked by 5,000,000 or 10,000,000. Yes, A larger army will have an advantage over a smaller army, that is hardly the work of a military genius. No matter how large our army though a larger army may come along, but I would still suggest the best defence remains a modern well equipped and well trained army, and forcing people to fight will not win wars. Were Vanuku to come under direct attack it is likely that there would be a great number of voluunteers among eligible men and women looking to serve. Good, theywould have my blessing, and they would be respected for volounteering because they chose to fight, not because they were forced into it. I am aware of only one war in history where a conscript army actually won, that being the eastern front during the second world war, and that owed as much to the russian winter, and stretched german supply lines as it did to the russian army, yet history is littered with examples where a committed, well trained and well led volounteer army has defeated larger forces. Article 3: I do not see the value of Nuclear vengeance, and am yet to be convinced that a nuclear arsenal acts as a detterent. |
| Date | 02:54:24, September 12, 2006 CET | From | Vanuku Nationalists Party | To | Debating the KS2282-1 Defence Act |
| Message | Remove Nuclear from the table and we support this bill. |
| Date | 11:20:24, September 12, 2006 CET | From | Liberal Democrat Party | To | Debating the KS2282-1 Defence Act |
| Message | So let me get this straight, other nations can attack us with nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and we are goning to fight back with bows and arrows... move into the 23rd centuary will you please! You may claim those nations are the "biggest terrorist" i would like to see some actual evidence and not accusations. As for New Zealand it is that the country is a pacifist it is that Helen Clarke their idiotic PM is one, and she held power by just one seat... and that was due to her economic policies, many wanted change due to the fact she couldnt handle world affairs. As for Japan they have no choice but to be pacifists... after WWII their constitution was rewritten and they were forced to be that way. They cannot undertake any agressive action as that would violate their constitution. As for the 51st state of America... (Canada in case you didnt guess) they always do wat America tells them to do.. so who is dumber the blind... or the blind man that knowing followed the blind? You assume that our conscripts will not be trained as well as the rest. If we were in a situation of war... we would know in advance whether we would need additional forces early on and would be able to begin training them. We are not in the business of sending unskilled children to do a mans job... it is just a precaution, taking preventative measures clearly inst in your nature... yet nothing you said even made me considering change my mind. This bill is perfect as is and will stay that way. |
| Date | 12:02:22, September 12, 2006 CET | From | Social Devolutionist | To | Debating the KS2282-1 Defence Act |
| Message | Please read my post. I have never claimed the Uk, US and Israel are the biggest terrorists. I have claimed they are the biggest terrorist targets. Do you honestly dispute that? Whatever the reasons (and whilst canada are a long way from doing everything america says, I'm not going to dispute your reasons on the others), Canada, New Zealand and Japan are not terrorist targets, and they do not meddle in other nations affairs to the extent of the US, Uk and Israel. I think there is a connection. Meddling in the affairs of other nations makes one a terrorist target. A pacifist stance reduces the likelihood of being a terrorist target. My argument then is that a pacifist stance, allied with effective counterintelligence services, is the most appropriate way to keep our people safe, both within Vanuku, and abroad. I assume that a soldier with a full 16 weeks basic training and a posting to a regular unit will be better trained than a conscript. I think it naive to assume that we will always have sixteen weeks up our sleeve. This bell provides that 'in time of war' we have conscription. That is conscription would start when someone declares war on us. In those circumstances I would be surprised if we had two weeks to train our conscripts. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 255 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 305 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Players should not role-play characters without the consent of the owner, and if they find they have role-played the character beyond what the owner intended, they should withdraw or amend the role-play appropriately. |
| Random quote: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun... our principle is to have the Party control the gun and never allow the gun to control the Party." - Mao Zedong |