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Bill: Health Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Aldegar Social Democratic Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2291
Description[?]:
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Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Policy on the legality of abortions
Old value:: Abortion is allowed during the first and second trimesters.
Current: Abortion is allowed during the first trimester.
Proposed: Abortion is allowed during the entire course of the pregnancy.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The right to euthanasia.
Old value:: Euthanasia is illegal and considered murder.
Current: Euthanasia is only allowed with consent from the patient and a court order.
Proposed: Euthanasia is allowed with consent from the patient and the treating doctor.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Health care policy.
Old value:: Health care is private, but is paid for by the state for people with low incomes.
Current: There is a public health care system, but private clinics are allowed.
Proposed: There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
Date | 01:12:46, September 28, 2006 CET | From | Aldegar Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | If you were pregnant with a child that you really didn't want to have, would you like going to an abortion clinic only to hear, "Sorry, you're in your third trimester, abortions are illegal for you right now, so we just have to let you suffer or all of us will get arrested"? If you were really suicidal, and you really thought that life just wasn't worth living anymore, would you like to go to your doctor and request euthanasia only to hear, "Sorry, even though I would like to help you, you'll just have to keep suffering through life because I don't want to get arrested for murder"? |
Date | 06:06:23, September 28, 2006 CET | From | Center-Right Coalition | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | Legalizing the deliberate killing of other human beings undermines the basis of public law and morality. Besides, no system can be fully foolproof. Effectively legalizing voluntary euthanasia legalizes involuntary euthanasia. Look no further than World War 2 Nazi Germany for details. |
Date | 22:58:07, September 28, 2006 CET | From | Aldegar Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | "The deliberate of human beings"? Let me get this into your head. FIRST it is an EMBRYO, THEN it is a FETUS, and WHEN IT IS BORN, IT BECOMES A HUMAN BEING. And if you STILL think that abortion should be a crime, think of a scenario like this: Some random gets pregnant. She doesn't know it at first, but when she does find out, she's already in her third trimester and thus the reactionary neocons that run the health clinics won't give her any help whatsoever. She goes on to have the baby, after tons of labour that puts serious strain on her body. The baby probably gets abandoned anyway, as the 's boyfriend has completely forgotten that she exists. After people find out about what happened, the becomes the laughingstock of her community and frequently has suicidal tendencies. She becomes a broken woman; the child fares even worse. He or she would most likely end up on the streets, unwanted, unloved and unsure of who his or her parents really are. So thanks to the CRC, one person's life is completely ruined, and one unwanted person (who could have been aborted while they were still a fetus) has an unnecessarily miserable life. (Oh, and just for reference purposes, a fetus cannot see, hear, speak or touch, its brain is practically completely undeveloped which means it can't think either, and it is entirely dependent on the mother, who SHOULD have the right to choose.) As for euthanasia, if someone really wants to die, WHY NOT LET THEM? Linking euthanasia to World War II? That's your best rebuttal? That's like blaming global warming on the AIDS quilt. I mean, seriously, if you think Aldegar needs protection from mass ers, you had better tighten up those gun laws. Besides, how is helping someone die ? What if suicidal people don't want to shoot themselves or jump out of windows? (I mean, I don't blame them, why bother going through a minute of pure pain before you die when you can just go out peacefully?) Plus, I highly doubt ANYONE, even the mentally deranged, would be building gas chambers. By using your argument that legalizing voluntary euthanasia legalizes involuntary euthanasia, then legalizing voluntary gun ownership legalizes involuntary gun ownership. Do you see how incredibly stupid that sounded? |
Date | 04:59:24, September 29, 2006 CET | From | Center-Right Coalition | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | So to sum up your rant about abortion, it's better to kill a child off before they're even born rather than give them a chance at life because, hey, they're probably going to grow up to be a piece of crap anyway. And since when did women not realize they were pregnant until the third trimester? Physiological changes and menstrual changes are realized well within the first trimester. I'd ask that the spokesperson for the ASDP show some restraint. The ASDP's most recent outburst is another prime example why their volatile leaders are incapable of garnering the trust of the Aldegarian people. |
Date | 21:45:41, September 29, 2006 CET | From | Aldegar Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | What do you mean, "kill"? It's still a fetus anyway, so I'll have none of this nonsense about "killing babies". As we said earlier, a fetus cannot see, hear, speak or touch and its brain is practically completely undeveloped which means it can't think either. AND it is completely dependent on the mother. We also never said that the baby (if it is born, THEN it is a baby) will always grow up to be bad, but hey, stuff like that frequently happens. (I've seen MANY scenarios like that one IRL, believe it or not.) And yes, some women (especially teens for that matter, like the ones who just think they're having some fun with their boyfriend and nothing bad will happen) do not know they're pregnant until their third trimester (or, if the so-called "Lifeguard" Act is passed, their second). (Oh, and if you needed help understanding our "rant" about euthanasia, it should say: As for euthanasia, if someone really wants to die, WHY NOT LET THEM? Linking euthanasia to World War II? That's your best rebuttal? That's like blaming global warming on the AIDS quilt. I mean, seriously, if you think Aldegar needs protection from mass murderers, you had better tighten up those gun laws. Besides, how is helping someone die murder? What if suicidal people don't want to shoot themselves or jump out of windows? (I mean, I don't blame them, why bother going through a minute of pure pain before you die when you can just go out peacefully?) Plus, I highly doubt ANYONE, even the mentally deranged, would be building gas chambers. By using your argument that legalizing voluntary euthanasia legalizes involuntary euthanasia, then legalizing voluntary gun ownership legalizes involuntary gun ownership. Do you see how incredibly stupid that sounded? I bet I sounded pretty stupid too, but my policy was nothing short of brilliant.) |
Date | 21:59:52, September 29, 2006 CET | From | Aldegar Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | Oh, and by the way CRC, can you back up your position with anything other than "Abortion kills babies" (which is factually inaccurate)? |
Date | 07:04:23, September 30, 2006 CET | From | Center-Right Coalition | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | There's no use even arguing with you, you've already made up your mind. |
Date | 07:05:17, September 30, 2006 CET | From | Center-Right Coalition | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | (i.e. I have more important things to do to write up a half a page long explanation IRL then sit here in this sim, nothing personal) |
Date | 07:10:53, September 30, 2006 CET | From | Center-Right Coalition | To | Debating the Health Bill |
Message | (sorry to triple post, but as in you've already made your vote so need so need to write more for no reason) |
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Voting
Vote | Seats | ||
yes | Total Seats: 120 | ||
no | Total Seats: 255 | ||
abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
Random fact: In cases where players have failed to clearly and accurately reference their nation's RP laws in the "Bills under debate" section, Moderation will rule them invalid if a challenge is made to their validity. |
Random quote: "If gays are granted rights, next we'll have to give rights to prostitutes and to people who sleep with St. Bernards and to nailbiters." - Anita Bryant |