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Bill: State Industry Reform
Details
Submitted by[?]: Abandoned NFC Headquarters
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2077
Description[?]:
| As shown above. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy on industry and subsidies to industrial operations.
Old value:: The government does not intervene in the market nor provide any form of subsidies/relief to industries.
Current: The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services.
Proposed: All industry is owned and operated by the state.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:19:37, July 02, 2005 CET | From |  Imperial Conservative Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | The free market ... it was nice while it lasted! |
| Date | 15:24:49, July 02, 2005 CET | From | Abandoned NFC Headquarters | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | We do not need a chaotic market. That is what led to the Great Depression in the United States, because the government did not intervene. The government's policy in that day was that citizens should fend for themselves, economically speaking. That policy resulted in the deaths of thousands and the complete crash of the United States economy. |
| Date | 16:02:06, July 02, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | Western Europe is an excellent case study in protectionism and subsidies poisoning the markets and keeping nations who choose to operate this way behind the US and other competitors. Britain, Ireland and much of Eastern Europe like Estonia are charging ahead of France, Germany, Italy etc. simply because of the incompetency of a managed or interventionist economy to cope. |
| Date | 16:48:29, July 02, 2005 CET | From | Patriotic Libertarian Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | NFC, you really should learn some economics :) The great depression was cause by terrible monetary policy and von Mises had forseen it. |
| Date | 17:03:41, July 02, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | Its good to see that it hasn't been repeated since. Yet the USSR and its allies lived in perpetual slump conditions in their time... |
| Date | 01:35:51, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Communist Party of Endralon | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | I was going to put up a bill with the exact same proposal, but then I realized it would probably hurt my popularity given the current capitalist disposition of our population (damn these random variations of public opinion!), so I'll wait until AFTER the elections to propose it. Since Endralon is supposed to be a socialist country, this will have to pass. |
| Date | 01:43:59, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Communist Party of Endralon | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | ICP, the Great Depression was never repeated precisely because the free market of the pre-Depression era was never brought back. The Great Depression was an overproduction crisis. Overproduction crises happen when wage growth doesn't keep up with growth in productivity (in other words, the capitalists get too greedy and exploit their workers too much). If wages are too low, the workers are unable to buy the kinds of products that they themselves produce at work. So the companies making those products register a drop in sales, which forces them to cut costs by further reducing wages or laying off workers, which lowers the workers' buying power further, and so on in a feedback loop that crashes the economy. |
| Date | 01:50:18, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Communist Party of Endralon | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | Western Europe has higher standards of living than the United States. And have you actually BEEN to places like Estonia or the rest of Eastern Europe? All the talk about our free market policies being in any way good for us is a FUCKING JOKE. We have HORRIBLE living standards, and, outside of the big cities, they're getting WORSE, not better. Right here in Romania, the party that brought us record economic growth between 2000 and 2004 was voted out of power last year because the benefits of this economic growth were so unevenly distributed that most people saw their lives stay the same or get worse during those 4 years. |
| Date | 01:55:55, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Communist Party of Endralon | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | As for the USSR and its allies, need I remind you that the USSR went from being a horse-and-plough underdeveloped agricultural economy right after the revolution to being an industrial powerhouse, a nuclear power and the world's second largest economy just a little over 30 years later? The USSR had a meteoric rise to power, and its speed of development in its early years still remains without equal to this day. If that's not good enough to convince you of the efficiency of the Soviet economy (pre-1970's), then what is? |
| Date | 11:14:11, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Patriotic Libertarian Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | You should ask why there was overproduction? Because the credits were to cheap, supply of the dollar to big and there were plenty of misjudged investments. |
| Date | 11:15:52, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Patriotic Libertarian Party | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | "If that's not good enough to convince you of the efficiency of the Soviet economy (pre-1970's), then what is?" The system had fallen mostly due to economic bankrupcy. |
| Date | 12:49:10, July 03, 2005 CET | From | Communist Party of Endralon | To | Debating the State Industry Reform |
| Message | Of course. And that's why I said "pre-1970's". The Soviet economy began to stagnate in the 1970's, then collapsed in the 1980's. Why? Due to bad planning and corruption. Since there were no democratic elections, the government and its planners had no incentive to keep making good economic plans that served the needs of the people - they would stay in power no matter what they did, no matter if the economy was doing well or not. So corruption slowly crept in. The fact that they concentrated on heavy industry at the expense of consumer goods also hurt the economy and contributed to the Soviet Union's decline. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 292 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 367 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Particracy is set in the fictional world of Terra, which mirrors the real world of today and yet is not quite like it. |
| Random quote: "Politics: a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage." - Ambrose Bierce |