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Bill: Call for early elections, May 2075
Details
Submitted by[?]: Adam Smith Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill requests an early election. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline. Elections will be held immediately if the bill passes.
Voting deadline: March 2076
Description[?]:
| We, the Adam Smith Party, call for early elections as soon as we can reach a consensus. |
Proposals
Article 1
Arrange early elections as soon as this bill passes.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 05:23:26, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Approved, but only if all bills currently under vote pass/fail, and not get reset. |
| Date | 05:24:42, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ... Which would, on investigation, be October 2075. |
| Date | 05:25:50, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Given the following opinion, which we find inimicable to our ethics and policies, we feel that we should no longer serve as head of state. Thus we request that the honourable members of the house allow this vote of no confidence in Frances Hutcheson to pass and result in new elections. May 2075 Opinion Poll An opinion poll was held among the citizens of the Independent Republic of Lodamun. The subject of the opinion poll was Government policy on industry and subsidies to industrial operations When asked what their opinions were, the following choices were made: 14.76% Strategic industries are owned by the state in order to ensure the public good; all other industries are under private ownership. 19.23% The government does not intervene in the market nor provide any form of subsidies/relief to industries. 14.71% The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services. 21.78% All industry is state-owned and operated. 22.10% The state owns the commanding heights of the economy and all major industries, but private ownership is allowed in the minor industries. 7.43% The government subsidizes private enterprises that face bankruptcy. This indicates that nearly 60% of the population believe that the government should own industries. This idea is unacceptable to us, so we would tender to the house our resignation. |
| Date | 05:31:22, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((OOC Having no experience of early election bills, how long will this remain in the vote phase after I put it there. I too have no wish to reset the votes on other bills.)) |
| Date | 05:34:37, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | As soon as a 50% majority is obtained and the month calendar flips, new elections happen. |
| Date | 05:35:09, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((Based on this: http://aiglesrv.no-ip.info:8080/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=8479 it takes eight months in the voting stage like almost everything else. Which means January 2076)) We move this to vote. |
| Date | 05:36:17, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Oops. I'll hold off a while then but I will not respect any further bills being moved to vote to delay this. |
| Date | 05:36:58, July 04, 2005 CET | From | CNT/AFL | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | The same time as all the others do. |
| Date | 05:38:59, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | So what to do? I suggest that I move it to vote, but I will not vote on it until all the other bills in voting have completed. Any objection to this plan? |
| Date | 05:41:30, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We should hold off on this until around August 2075 (when there would only be one remaining proposal waiting to pass/fail) before moving to a vote. |
| Date | 05:43:35, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | My concern is other bills being placed into voting. A motion of no confidence in RL suspends the order of business. Do we have assurances that this will not be done. |
| Date | 05:44:23, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | The MLP agrees to hold off on moving its only bill not in voting phase to vote. |
| Date | 05:46:44, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Thank you. I will hold off until August, unless someone places a bill in voting that was not there when this bill was created. If that happens I will place this directly into voting. |
| Date | 05:56:21, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | The MLP would like to enquire about the possibility that the ASP gets revoted into power? |
| Date | 06:04:36, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Then we would have to accept the will of the people, and we would take it as a mandate to follow a small government policy line : P |
| Date | 06:12:26, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Change it to August, and you've got a deal. |
| Date | 07:42:09, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Are early elections really needed? The voters in their wisdom have elected a small-government head of state, but given a parliamentary majority to parties comfortable with a government role in the economy. A split decision. I am not at all sure that we should govern from poll to poll. However, we will agree to make a firm commitment not to move any bills to a vote while early elections are on the table. |
| Date | 12:53:37, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | May we suggest moving it to a vote now; it would not make sense to wait until October for VPTV to pass, or indeed fail. (VPFM and Contraceptive Act will definitely go through, as even if we get a 50% majority now, only in August, after those two have passed/failed, would new elections be called.) |
| Date | 15:27:26, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | As the equitista party seems to be congenitally incapable of cooperating with others, and moved two bills into voting. This has been moved now. |
| Date | 15:36:01, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((OOC @MLP. I have moved this as soon as I could. The time you posted was some obscene time in the morning here.)) |
| Date | 16:07:58, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We understand that the Orthodox Religious MLTP are worried that the left would lose control. That howecver is not the issue here. The issue is that we no longer believe that we have a mandate to govern given the results of a particular poll. |
| Date | 16:26:18, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | @ CCF. Where there is a poll on an issue that is core to the political beliefs of the party of the head of state, and this poll rejects the position of the head of state, in a democratic society it is only reasonable that they step down. Now as the game mechanics only allow that by calling an early election, that is what we are attempting to do, on the grounds of our personal conscience. If you could be hapy running a country that said 'f**k the environment' then we would doubt your commitment to your policies. As such we can not be happy running a country that tells us to interfere in business. |
| Date | 16:42:01, July 04, 2005 CET | From |  National People's Gang | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | So far this rather remarkable parliament has passed the following bills: Government Subsidiary on Contraceptives Vox Pop Radio - VPFM Pacifist Diplomacy Act Restoring the Education System A number of other very positive bills are in the pipeline and will undo much of the damage imposed on the people of Lodamun by the ideologues of the past few years. We're very happy for the continuation of this Parliament and believe the ASPs attempt to shirk responsibility in order to pursue the imposition of its ideological agenda is typical of its derisory view of the electorate. |
| Date | 16:52:33, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Grow UP idiot. Or at least learn to read. |
| Date | 16:58:51, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We could easily have resigned immediately, as we arew capable of adding numbers together. No. We were elected to do certain things. However when the people, not the politicians, express an opinion opposed to our position, we are honour bound to refer the issue back to them. ((OOC This is the first time I have ever heard of communist parties refusing to accept the resignation of a free market head of state. Shows the level of commitment to the ideal that you fail to have I suppose)) |
| Date | 18:50:57, July 04, 2005 CET | From | CNT/AFL | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | I take it the Adam Smith Party will NOT be running a Presidential candidate in the next election? If you are, this is a blatant abuse of power to attempt to get hold of the parliament. |
| Date | 18:57:37, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | If you would tell me how to NOT run a candidate, then I will not. Ipresume it simply means not having a candidate named. |
| Date | 19:07:18, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We currently have no candidate for the HoS. This is in response to a rather extereme and unnecessary complaint. We are resigning on the basis that the people have rejected our ideals. No power grab is involved. ((OOC I actually think that the left will end up more powerful after another election, but meh.) |
| Date | 21:02:42, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We have considered the point raised by the CNT/AFL party concerning having no HoS candidate. We find, upon consideration that this would make the whole vote of confidence irrelevant. What is happening here is that the HoS is asking for a popular mandate to confirm the small government policy line. If the party puts forward no HoS candidate, then this whole exercise is pointless. So we are reinstating Frances Hutcheson as candidate to HoS. |
| Date | 22:04:40, July 04, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Our members do not claim to be driven by ideology but try to represent the views of those who elected us. Which is probably the greatest ideological difference between us. |
| Date | 22:12:29, July 04, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | In which case you would support this resignation. It is based, as you can read for yourself, on the opinion of those that elected us. However, no, your own opinion and interestys appear to be much more important than those of the electorate. Have a nice day now. |
| Date | 01:19:49, July 05, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | In our view, the interests of the electorate are currently being served, quite well enough, with President-Councillor Frances Hutcheson in the chair. As repugnant as your members may find it, she is overseeing quite a range of positive legislation. We'd like her to stay for the time being thank you. |
| Date | 02:04:39, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | You are not in a position to determine her intentions, which she made clear at the start of her chairwomanship, and ahe has also made clear in moving this motion. Your desires, Equitistra, to be honest, are of no concern of ours. |
| Date | 03:32:12, July 05, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We don't wish to determine her intentions, we aim to control her actions if possible. The desires of Hutcheson and her party are not our concerns, therefore, we vote to retain this parliament. |
| Date | 04:04:06, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We feel parliament has been doing useful work and should have the chance to continue. The people do not show any desire for an early election. On the other hand, if the President-Councillor wishes to resign, then she has the right to do so: she is not an indentured servant. The problem is a flaw in our constitution that requires the entire parliaemnt to resign when one individual does. How would the ASP feel about parliament naming an interim head of state, a non-partisan individual with no party membership, to hold the position until the next regularly scheduled elections? It is even posisble thata cooling-off period before the next campaign might malke it less bitter than would be the case with immediate elections. |
| Date | 05:11:32, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We will consider the offer of the CCF-Greens. The doubt we have is over the appointment rather than election of such a figure. The Head of State is a representative post, and its occupant should be selected by the people, not by the government. |
| Date | 05:16:38, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | @ Equitista. The comment on controling the actions of an elected head of state reveals your true dictatorial totalitarian nature. While you and people like you are members of this house, we can not, in all conscience allow this house to nominate a successor. As such we will place the issue before the people if possible. If not permitted to do this by a house that claims itself to be democratic but would have shown itself to be far from this we will continue as Head of State. We regret Alicia, that without further persuasion we will be unable to accept your offer due to the attitudes of some of your colleagues in this house. |
| Date | 07:35:35, July 05, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Obviously our understanding of democracy is very different. We believe we have a duty to represent the wishes of our electorate, not to comply with the demands of an individual or of another party. However, let us move the debate on, given that our dictatorial and totalitarian nature in declining to follow your orders is unlikely to change: The Head of State does not have the constitutional authority to either suspend or dissolve this parliament. Any attempt to exercise such authority is, therefore, unconstitutional. Parliament may dissolve itself - and does so when more than 50% of the house votes in favour of early elections. |
| Date | 09:37:37, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | A CFF yes vote would schedule early elections. We urge the CCF to accept the President-Councillor's resignation. |
| Date | 15:07:37, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((OOC Albert. I would love to be able to resign without dissolving the parliament. This is a problem of game mechanics. The optins open to me were to ignore the will of the people or to move this bill, which I have done, in the genuine belief that the left of centre balance of power would not be lost, much though I personally would prefer otherwise. )) |
| Date | 15:33:58, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | We cannot speak for our colleagues in parliament, only for ourselves. The question of left versus right is not relevant, as parties in both camps are split and there is no way of knowing how the people would vote in the next election. In our view, there is no reason to dissolve parliament. The President-Councillor has resigned, and we accept that. A new head of state is needed, but the duties of the post are not onerous, as the head of state has alreadcy discharged her main responsibility, that of forming a cabinet. As we see it, the constitutional possibilities are: -- The Prime Minister (head of government) beocmes President-Councillor. Presumably the ASP would refuse this, however. -- the Speaker of Parliament takes on the duties of interim head of state. (Parliament would have to elect a speaker from one party or another) -- Parliament elects an interim head of state (the offer we made earlier, refused by the ASP). We still feel this iso the best course, allowing both the resignation and the ability for parliament to continue working, while giving advantage to no party. -- A special election is held for a new head of state, with all parties agreeing not to offer candidates -- The runner-up becomes Miss Lodamun, if the winner is unable to fulfil her duties (OK, the last one was a joke. Obviously given the mechanics we either need to hold elections or agree to an RP'ed resigantion and replacement. I tend to favour the second course. The game mechanics issue may be less the lack of abiltiy to hold new HoS elections as the lack of a clearly defined line of succession.)) |
| Date | 15:54:06, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | All of which is fine CCF even the joke option. However none of this is possible with our current system. ((Game mechanics)) The only option available at the moment under the rules which we are obliged to follow is to call early elections. ((Please make the suggestions in the Development forum, where they have a chance of being implemented eventually. Here they sound good, but don't solve the problem)). The suggestion We would have for the HoS resigning is that the candidate that reached the second round is automatically chosen to replace the HoS. This second placed candidate was, after all the second choice of the people and will automaticaly be of a different party to the outgoing HoS. In this case it would mean that on the resignation of Frances Hutcheson, the Head of State would be Alicia Chang of the CCF-Greens |
| Date | 15:58:33, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | Additionally, there is the desire to refer the issue back to the people. The people have caused this situation by selecting a head of state with one ideology and then expressing a contempt for that same ideology. It is not clear what the will of the people is. As such it is felt that no leader could claim a democratic mandate at the moment. To resolve that impass, the only solution is to refer the issue back to a popular vote. Ideally this would be just an election for Head of State with no impact on the Parliament. However that, unfortunately, is not permitted. Being a democratic party, we feel that we have no option but to cal elections. |
| Date | 18:10:08, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((I can see two options, since the one we all want -- new HoS elections -- is not possible. One is early elections, the other is an RP'ed agreement that the head of state is someone other than what it says in the box -- possibly we could ask a mod to change that name.)) |
| Date | 19:44:22, July 05, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the Call for early elections, May 2075 |
| Message | ((That ignores the fundamental motive for resigning. Which was to refer the contradictory position of the people back to them to decide what they want.)) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 187 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 183 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 80 |
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