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Bill: Citizenship Qualification
Details
Submitted by[?]: Populist Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2326
Description[?]:
| 13 is just too young to be considered an adult. It would make more sense if it is found out that the average lifespan was maybe 40 years old! |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning granting citizenship.
Old value:: Citizenship is granted to all nationals.
Current: Citizenship is granted to all nationals.
Proposed: Citizenship is gained by passing a qualifying exam.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The age at which a person is considered an adult (limited between 12 and 24).
Old value:: 13
Current: 16
Proposed: 18
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 21:12:59, December 05, 2006 CET | From | Baltusian Pantian Alliance | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | You have Pantian support on these proposals. |
| Date | 21:17:51, December 05, 2006 CET | From | Progressive Conservative Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Our support too. |
| Date | 13:06:10, December 06, 2006 CET | From |  Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Funnily enough, the only vote that counts is against. What makes 18 so good as the gateway to adulthood? If a 13 year old murders someone in cold blood, why should we pretend they have a child-like intellect when they clearly knew what they were doing? If a 13 year old decides to screw around, who's going to stop them? If a 13 year old wants to start smoking pot, are you going to be able to prevent them? May as well sit back and let society take care of itself. As for your "40 year comment", that's just dumb. The current lifespan of an average human is about 75 years. If you're an adult at 18, that means 24% of your expected life has passed. 24% of 40 years is 9.6. 13 years from 75 is 17%. Completely inconsistent and the biggest exaggeration ever seen in the history of humanity. Do your maths. |
| Date | 15:23:05, December 06, 2006 CET | From | Baltusian Pantian Alliance | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | So your saying that the average 13 year old has the ability to make their own decisions in life outside their parents and or guardians? As for the crime business we just enact laws specifically for someone who commits those offenses. |
| Date | 22:28:48, December 06, 2006 CET | From | Populist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Children of 13 have been tried as adults before! If the crime has been determined to be bad enough you don't have to treat them as children. I agree with BPA! The average 13 year old's decisions are strongly affeted by parents decisions. Are you saying you want to let 13 year olds live out on their own and not have to go to school because they are adults? It doesn't have to be 18, but 13 is just ridiculously young. Oh and why don't we make it younger? A 9 year old can murder someone with a gun and know what they're doing so why don't we make them adults too! |
| Date | 22:29:26, December 06, 2006 CET | From | Populist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Oh, and I'm gonna go ahead and accuse you of using "fuzzy math". |
| Date | 22:44:14, December 06, 2006 CET | From | Populist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Furthermomre: Based on the fact that there is a law in place: All adults upon completion of schooling can be required in times of war to serve a term in the military. So we're going to field a military of 13 year olds? Might as well abolish the alcohalic beverage laws because 13year olds are considered old enough to drink, because we need more children dying of Liver Disease by the time they're 40. Same with the tobacco laws...Whats the difference between a 8 or 9 year old smoking and a 13 year old smoking? Same with pornography. By making legal age 13 basically makes the other laws irrelevant or contradictory. We require students to be educated until 18 yet they are considered adults at 13 and can therefore serve in the military. Why have further restrictions for other items like alcohal and tobacco? Because one shouldn't expose such things to children at age 13 even if they are capable of committing murder...It's only going to increase disease and crime in the long run. |
| Date | 01:51:26, December 07, 2006 CET | From | Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | "So your saying that the average 13 year old has the ability to make their own decisions in life outside their parents and or guardians" This coming from the party that wanted to legalise narcotics for all children? "As for the crime business we just enact laws specifically for someone who commits those offenses." Then what's the point of this law at all? Just legislate different ages as relevant. "Children of 13 have been tried as adults before!" Why are people who are considered legally children tried as adults in the most legal of settings? Seems like a gross legal error on the part of the Justice Department, which, unsurprisingly, is headed by YOUR PARTY! "A 9 year old can murder someone with a gun and know what they're doing so why don't we make them adults too!" OOC: The game won't let us. "I'm gonna go ahead and accuse you of using "fuzzy math"." Until you explain what you mean by fuzzy math, I'm gonna go ahead and accuse your claim of being bullshit. "All adults upon completion of schooling can be required in times of war to serve a term in the military." Allow me to clarify something for you. You must be 18 to leave school. School is compulsory. Therefore, you cannot be under 18 and enlist in the military, adult or no, because you have not completed your education. Pretty damn simple, no? "children dying of Liver Disease by the time they're 40." Only if they fail to drink responsibly. You've recognised the impact of parents on children. Why don't the parents take some action? Why must you decide everything, paternalistically, for everyone? Who made you God? "Whats the difference between a 8 or 9 year old smoking and a 13 year old smoking" A 13 year-old generally has hit puberty and needs to look as cool as possible. An 8 or 9 year old does not. Man, I can see you were the geek at your high school. "pornography" Don't know whether you missed the BBC's "Porn-o-rama" Tuesday every week but its within easy reach of children anyway. Who really cares? "By making legal age 13 basically makes the other laws irrelevant or contradictory. We require students to be educated until 18 yet they are considered adults at 13 and can therefore serve in the military." Well, I've shown both statements are total crap. "Because one shouldn't expose such things to children at age 13" Perhaps but who should be that one? You, a childless old miser, or the goddamn freaking parents? "crime in the long run" How so? Generally speaking, making more things legal leads to a drop in crime because what was previously a crime is no longer. |
| Date | 19:00:35, December 07, 2006 CET | From | Populist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Seeing as all this debate doesnt matter anyway, I'm going to move this to vote so you can just shoot it down...I just am trying to get some more seats is all. |
| Date | 19:01:36, December 07, 2006 CET | From | Populist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | Oh, and "fuzzy math" was just a joke. It's what President Bush accused the Democrats of using during the 2000 election. |
| Date | 00:51:45, December 08, 2006 CET | From | Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the Citizenship Qualification |
| Message | OOC: Ah, understood now. Good debate. =P |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 41 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 59 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Selucia is Particracy's modern take on Ancient Rome, located on the continent of Majatra. |
| Random quote: "A son can bear with equanimity the loss of his father, but the loss of his inheritance may drive him to despair." - Niccolo Machiavelli |