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Bill: Separation of church and state Bill (1)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Christian People's Party (IA)
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2359
Description[?]:
| Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state'...is absolutely essential in a free society. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government determines which missionaries are permitted to visit on a person by person basis.
Current: Foreign missionaries are welcomed and encouraged by the government.
Proposed: Foreign missionaries are not permitted to enter the nation.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Current: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Proposed: Religious organizations are not permitted to actively promote themselves or advertise, however evangelism is permitted by individuals.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change
Taxation of religious institutions.
Old value:: Recognized religions are not taxed.
Current: No religions are taxed.
Proposed: Religions are treated as companies, and all profit is taxed, however, charitable donations are not taxed.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Remuneration of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Current: The salaries and pensions of ministers of religion shall be borne by the state and regulated by the law.
Proposed: The salaries and pensions of ministers of religion shall be borne by the state and regulated by the law.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy with respect to prayer in schools.
Old value:: Teacher-led prayers in schools are encouraged.
Current: Teacher-led prayers in schools are encouraged.
Proposed: Teacher-led prayers in schools are forbidden, except in religious schools.
Article 6
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning religions.
Old value:: There is an official state religion, but membership is completely voluntary.
Current: There is an official state religion, but membership is completely voluntary.
Proposed: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:17:30, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | This bill seems somewhat misnamed to us. Banning foreign missionaries, taxing churches and having the state provide the wages of ministers is high level state interference in the affairs of religion, not a separation. |
| Date | 17:20:50, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | Trying to separate the Church from the Holy Empire is treason and heresy. Burn the witch! |
| Date | 17:30:31, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Christian People's Party (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | A real church is not interested in making profit but saving the spirit of the people (all profit is taxed, however, charitable donations are not taxed), we don't need foreign missionaries spreading foreign religions, at least the pay of priests are controlet until we can do away with it god willing lol |
| Date | 17:36:11, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | Why must you try to try to fill the anti-moral vacuum left by the SNU? |
| Date | 20:23:56, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Falanges Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | you will pay for this heavily RBP, you declared a war on God and on the moral parties in this Holy Empire. |
| Date | 22:42:36, February 11, 2007 CET | From | Christian People's Party (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | F##k god! long live the Cult of Reason http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason |
| Date | 02:13:55, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Redneck Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC:That last comment was entirely wrong, and I demand you stop such postings. |
| Date | 02:45:02, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: I may be new, but I have read the moderation forum and the noticeboard. Are you taking the piss? Do you actually want me to start quoting your own words back at you? |
| Date | 09:48:36, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Falanges Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | I will see how we could punish this so called party. |
| Date | 13:18:16, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Christian People's Party (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Lol |
| Date | 13:57:49, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Christian People's Party (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: What you can gay bash the SNU so much that it becomes personal for him and he asks you to stop or atleast tone it down and you just continue bullying him. And what we call for Separation of church and state and you get all offended by it + my choice of words (that was censored) my dear Redneck and others lol. I wonder if you have noticed but this is a political role playing game and we are a Republican Party not an american republican party but a French republican party in the jacobin tradition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_Club) and has a strong belive in laïcité (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9) among other things P.S in RL i do attend church every sunday and belive in god and here is even a link to my church (http://www.svenstrup-kirke.dk/). But the Republican Brotherhood Party in the game don't belive in "religious nonsense" |
| Date | 19:16:44, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: To be fair, I think the CDP was dealing with it, quite rightly, in an IC manner. The Rednecks could always take it to moderation of course. I'm sure they'll treat it with all the gravitas it deserves. |
| Date | 23:27:50, February 12, 2007 CET | From | Redneck Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: There is a vast difference between what I did, and his comment. My refering to a group of people and who they support as "sodomite" and his flat out profanity towards the Lord can never be compared by any rational person. There are ways to roleplay an anti-Religion party without resorting to such filth. Try it out. |
| Date | 01:00:04, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Fair enough. There seems to be a genuine dispute here so I'll take it to moderation for you. |
| Date | 01:08:48, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | It's here- http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134591&mforum=particracy#134591 |
| Date | 02:50:35, February 13, 2007 CET | From |   Fair Capitalism Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | Redneck: I hope you're being ironic. The comment is just as IC as your remarks to the SNU were, and are just as legal. |
| Date | 02:52:28, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Fair Capitalism Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | What's more, unlike your comments, if that remark was indeed OOC it's still OK, as it wasn't a personal insult. |
| Date | 03:34:37, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Redneck Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Profanity is fine? It was hardly censored out, and if that's allowed, your rules need to be rethought. Profanity is behavior suitable for children and fools. |
| Date | 03:53:52, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: If anything, I am being far more nice ingame then I am in life. I embrace being called a Anti-Christian Extremeist, and I will never lighten up. Deal with it or leave. |
| Date | 11:31:47, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Why wh\ould a God fearing churchgoer post profanity against God in the first place? Surely this can be dealt with by a simple retraction? |
| Date | 13:17:00, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Christian People's Party (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Because my relationship with god is not based on fear. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism#Doctrine) |
| Date | 13:41:24, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Allowing for the term "God fearing" my question still stands. |
| Date | 20:32:20, February 13, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Because it's a matter of roleplaying. I'm not going to pretend I'm a Christian when I'm not, but the obvious point here would be that a God as powerful as the Christian God is unlikely to care about this kind of thing. (Particuarly when, as a Lutheran, the RPB is a believer in salvation by faith as opposed to salvation through deeds). |
| Date | 20:14:26, February 14, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: As Calvinists we also believe in salvation by God's grace through pre-determination - but this doesn't mean we can commit blasphemy or ery, for instance. |
| Date | 20:19:52, February 14, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: But look at it like the Passion Plays. Supported by the Church, but often had someone playing Judas or Satan. I'd see this as a modern day example. |
| Date | 20:26:00, February 14, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Interesting that the a d u l t part of the word a d u l t e r y is censored, in a game where we are trying to discuss matters such as the age of maturity! |
| Date | 21:00:44, February 14, 2007 CET | From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: Hahahaha. Really? Adult. |
| Date | 21:02:45, February 14, 2007 CET | From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the Separation of church and state Bill (1) |
| Message | OOC: How did you say that? |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 32 | ||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 68 | ||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Don't vote yes on a cabinet coalition that doesn't give you the power that you deserve. |
| Random quote: "Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - Franklin D. Roosevelt |