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Bill: LITP Social Policies
Details
Submitted by[?]: Likaton Coalition of the Willing
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2365
Description[?]:
| The LITP proposes the following: That alcohol be clearly marked with a list of known harmful side effects, and only sold to adults by licensed vendors. That tobacco be clearly marked with a list of known harmful side effects, and sold to adults only. That cannabis be clearly marked with a list of known harmful side effects, and only sold to adults by licensed vendors. If we are allowing it to be used medicinally, and we allow tobacco, the to restrict cannabis is at best inconsistent. That all forms of pornography that depict sexual acts are available, so long as no laws were broken in the making, but be clearly marked with a list of known harmful side effects, and only sold to adults. All pornography should have a page detailing consent information for all participants pictured, Additionally, details of all risks associated with pornography usage be listed. *This provision specifically excludes any pornography featuring anyone unable or unwilling to give consent, for personal, physical, or legal reasons, all of which should remain illegal* We also propose that a quasi-autonomous non-governmental body be set up, with the following remit: 1. To fund research into the cost and impact of tobacco, alcohol, pornography and cannabis on the economy and society 2. To support medical and social rehabilitation programmes for those suffering from addiction to these substances 3. To provide support for the families of those affected by abuse of the four substances, both indirect and direct 4. To look at the long-term health risks associated with all four products, and to report back to the Convocation annually, with a list of recommendations for future legislation |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards alcoholic beverages.
Old value:: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased and consumed anywhere, but only by adults.
Current: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased and consumed anywhere, but only by adults.
Proposed: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, and can only be available to adults.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The distribution, purchasing and possession of material depicting pornographic acts.
Old value:: Pornography depicting consenting adults is legal for adults.
Current: Pornography depicting consenting adults is legal for adults.
Proposed: All forms of pornography are legal, but only for adults.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The recreational drug policy.
Old value:: Recreational drug use is forbidden.
Current: There are no laws regulating what citizens can put into their bodies.
Proposed: The use of cannabis is legal.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Sale of tobacco products.
Old value:: Only adults may purchase tobacco.
Current: Only adults may purchase tobacco.
Proposed: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 23:54:34, February 23, 2007 CET | From | Civil Liberties Party | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We could agree with Articles 3, 4, and 5, but not 1 or 2. |
| Date | 00:17:35, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We would be okay with 1 and 5. We could readily support article 4. Articles 2 and 3 are pretty much insupportable. |
| Date | 00:25:18, February 24, 2007 CET | From | AM Populist Social Democrats | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We support Article 5, and will support Article 4 if our more liberal (in both senses of the word) proposal fails to pass. We are mildly opposed to Article 1, but only mildly; but we are strongly opposed to Articles 2 and 3. We oppose Article 3 because *it makes child pornography legal*! We could support the other form of loosening laws on pornography, that pornography featuring consenting adults was legal for everyone; but certainly not child porn-- or for that matter, pornography of a person really being raped-- being legal at all. |
| Date | 00:36:40, February 24, 2007 CET | From |  Likaton Coalition of the Willing | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We feel that the PLPL are perhaps misconstruing the nature of legislation. Loosening the restrictions on pornography does not change the legal status of sexual abuse of a minor, nor of rape. It is a fact, however, that sexual preferences are wildly varied, and that the human libido is stimulated by many things, including some that are unpalatable to many. By legalising all forms of pornography, but including information of counselling and support for those with addiction or other related health issues, we feel that a greater good is being done. |
| Date | 00:36:53, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | This is an example of how, despite apparent differences in perspective, two parties can achieve a harmonious approach. We are consistently gratified by how similar many of our agenda points are to PLPL perspectives. Article Three is the big dealbreaker for us, also - and for the exact same reasons. |
| Date | 00:40:01, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Likaton Coalition of the Willing | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We have amended the Bill text, in the hope of gaining some consensus. |
| Date | 00:41:02, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We appreciate the perspective of the LITP, but there is harm here. Removing the need for pornography to "depict consenting adults" means that pornography can 'depict' non-consensual attacks, and attacks on thos eincapable of even giving informed consent. Even if the actions are simulated, their simulation cannot always be entirely assured, and their simple existence as simulated material may prove sufficient encouragement to some... to try to mimic what 'they see on tv'. The AMR has no problems with sex, sexuality, sexual fetishism, or the portrayal of such. Indeed, where two (or more) consenting adults are involved, we are basically totally laissez-faire - let them do what they wish, and film it if they chose to do so. Only - they ALL have to be consenting. |
| Date | 00:44:16, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | While we applaud the edited version of the langauge for this bill, does the LITP not realise that the whole Article has now become redundant? The law would effectively change from - "sex with consenting adults involved, is available for adults" to "sex with consenting adults involved, is available for adults". Perhaps there is political mileage to be gained? We consider the point now redundant. |
| Date | 00:49:14, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Likaton Coalition of the Willing | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | We believe that pornography depicting adults who consent to be in the pornography, but are not necessarily depicted as consenting, is they key change here. |
| Date | 00:57:55, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | Except that: non-consenting sex is not legal. Thus, according to the flavour text: "...all forms of pornography that depict legal sexual acts are available...", there is no real difference between "consenting adults portraying sexual acts" and "adults portraying consenting sexual acts". |
| Date | 00:58:18, February 24, 2007 CET | From | AM Populist Social Democrats | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | Okay, we better understand the LITP position on the child pornography issue. However, legalizing child pornography would encourage people to make it, and thus to abuse children. On the other hand, we would agree that what is called "simulated child pornography," which does not involve actual abuse of children, should be legal. This is done either through those depicted being 18 or older but by natural looks, makeup, and retouching being made to look like children. However, adults are still those who are in the pictures or videos. We would support a resolution specifically stating that this was legal, or maybe a bill with your article that stated that it can appear to depict other than consenting adults, but that those whose pictures or videos are used must be consenting adults. This is the same with simulated rape. We find it acceptable for adults to have access to material in which an actress pretends to be raped by someone, and it looks real; but no pornography should be made of actual rape. We do recognize that there is nothing wrong, per se, with people whose sexual fantasies we would find disgusting having pornography available that depicts them, and would not oppose that which simulates it; but we would not allow the legal distribution of material that can only be made by rape of anyone or sexual abuse of children. We hold that the actual models/performers must be consenting adults, although we would accept that they can appear to be otherwise. We also are pretty strongly opposed to further regulation of gambling, consistent with the PLPL's long-standing belief that adults have a right to be stupid (and in fact casino gambling is not always stupid, as people realize they have the odds against them, but willingly "pay" the house percentage as a price for the excitement). |
| Date | 01:01:33, February 24, 2007 CET | From | AM Populist Social Democrats | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | A lot happened while we were preparing our speech on the matter, but we would suggest that pornography, to be legal, may appear in fact to depict an illegal sexual act, but the actual participants must be consenting adults. |
| Date | 01:02:50, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | In the fine detail, we disagree with our esteemed colleagues in the PLPL. The PLPL would allow pornography that pretends to be child abuse or rape, as long as 'real' consent is given. (And all individuals are capable of giving consent). The AMR, on the other hand, says that there is no justification for allowing non-consensual acts to be portrayed, since we think their portrayal allows a false reality - allows some people to think it is 'okay' to act on their fantasy. The AMR will not support legislation that removes the 'consent' clause. |
| Date | 01:06:00, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Likaton Coalition of the Willing | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | The LITP, in response to debate, have removed the gambling Article, and will raise it seperately. We have also amended the detail of the Article on pornography. |
| Date | 01:07:51, February 24, 2007 CET | From | AM Populist Social Democrats | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | With these changes, we will vote in favor. |
| Date | 01:13:15, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | The LITP has allayed our fears. The language is excellent (although, the LITP clerics might want to check their spelling before this goes to a vote), and the removal of the gambling article is gravy. Excellent negotiations. We offer our sincere respects to our somrades in both the PLPL and the LITP. We shall offer support for this revised bill. |
| Date | 01:17:30, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Likaton Coalition of the Willing | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | The LITP clerics have used their spell-checker to remove those words that were uncorrectly spelled. |
| Date | 01:19:50, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | Having reviewed our communications before the Convocation on this issue, we only wish we could say the same... Axis Mundi Revolution representatives have been instructed to cast votes in favour of this bill. |
| Date | 01:36:14, February 24, 2007 CET | From | Civil Liberties Party | To | Debating the LITP Social Policies |
| Message | This changed bill has our support as well. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 61 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 119 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 19 |
| Random fact: "Kubrk" is a Jelbic word that has the colloquial meaning "old man" or "geezer". |
| Random quote: "Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made" - Otto von Bismark |