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Bill: A Matter of Faith
Details
Submitted by[?]: Imperium et Libertas Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2371
Description[?]:
| This Bill aims to ease up restrictions on Christians, while giving the state more control over the activities of heathen religions. We are aware that the stipulation on state veto of ministers may be a surprise to some people so we shall clarify. We do not see this clause being used with Christian religions, however we believe that some protection is needed against other religions choosing unsuitable leaders- anti-Christians, threats to national security etc. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government determines which missionaries are permitted to visit on a person by person basis.
Current: The government requires foreign missionaries to register with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Proposed: The government selectively screens which religions are permitted to send missionaries to the nation. Certain religions are approved and travel is unregulated.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state nominates ministers of religion, but the appointment is left up to the religious communities themselves.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:14:32, March 06, 2007 CET |
From | Falanges Party | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | It seems ok for us for now, but we should be sure not to obstruct the Church with this. |
| Date | 17:05:40, March 06, 2007 CET |
From | Redneck Party | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | We cannot support articles 2 or 3. Reguardless of your intertions, we feel they are not right for the Holy Empire. |
| Date | 21:33:36, March 06, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | While we wholly agree with the bill description and the first two articles we cannot support this as it stands. 'Religious schools are allowed, but are strictly regulated' simply doesn't conform to the description 'This Bill aims to ease up restrictions on Christians'. |
| Date | 21:54:17, March 06, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | Fortunately the ILP will have the opportunity to review this bill after the election before submitting to the vote again. I urge our honourable friends to remove article III when they do so. |
| Date | 21:09:08, March 07, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | When governments interfere with schools it just makes things worse. That's why taxpayers who are already paying for "free" state schools pay thousands of pounds a term for their kids to get away from government regulated schools. |
| Date | 13:33:22, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Catholic Justicial Party - Solidarity | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | Many poorer taxpayers cannot afford to send their children to private schools for "thousands of pounds" per term. That is why we need a state provision of education for poorer families. Nobody should be left behind in a truly Christian state. There is nothing wrong with government regulation of schools, either, although too much regulation is bad. |
| Date | 13:37:07, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | If you can't afford to pay school fees which would you rather have: vouchers to send your children to a decent school that attracts the kind of parent who can pay thousands of pounds per term, or a school run by the local council? |
| Date | 13:58:56, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | Let me try again: where do you think they would get a better education? Eton (one of Utagias finest public schools), or Moss Side Comprehensive (Moss Side is a notorious council estate ghetto in Sandulka)? |
| Date | 14:12:58, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Catholic Justicial Party - Solidarity | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | OOC: I recognise the names/archetypes of the schools you are using. They are from the British system. However, surely you are not saying that all comprehensives are like Moss Side?
ICC: Clearly in your example, Eton would be preferable, but sending poorer kids on voucher schemes to such places would not be cheap, a public education system would fill the gap nicely and take pressure off the private schools. |
| Date | 14:17:01, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | There is no reason to think that the government cannot strike a deal with these schools to make paying the tuition fees affordable to the state. After all, there are no state and independant universities are there? Only private and publically funded students. |
| Date | 14:25:25, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | OOC: State schools infused with Christian ethos are great. I'll be the first to admit that the best free schools in England are Roman Catholic schools, despite being a staunch protestant. There is a pattern, however, the less the government is involved the better the school is (local authority schools being the worst, GM schools and city academies are a little better thanks to their relative independence, then Church schools but ultimately the best ones are the independents. Parents simply wouldn't pay the extortionate fees, on top of their taxes, if they weren't worth it!) |
| Date | 14:29:57, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Catholic Justicial Party - Solidarity | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | OOC: As my honourable friend is aware, I come from a country where State education and Catholic teaching are fused together. Despite a few "problem students", the State and Church-run system produces students of a generally high standard, at virtually no cost to anyone (except the State, naturally). The problem with independant schools is that they can espouse any ideology they want. If they want to teach kids that the culture of death and abortion is best, we can't stop them because there's no regulation.
ICC: While prepared to compromise on education, we stand by our previous comment. |
| Date | 14:36:51, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Covenanters (IA) | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | OOC: You raise an interesting point that leads to an interesting quandry: why hasn't that happened? Independent schools in the UK are far more Christian in nature than their state counterparts. Even though the state compels its schools to a set amount of Christian worship, most of them flaunt the is rule: yet independent schools, who have no compulsion to carry out colective Christian worship, usually have purpose built Chapels and full time Chaplaincy staff? |
| Date | 16:25:49, March 08, 2007 CET |
From | Imperium et Libertas Party | To | Debating the A Matter of Faith | | Message | OOC: I'm pretty sure that the law doesn't demand Christian worship? But it can happen in state schools. I went to a Catholic Sixth Form, fully state funded, which had a full time Chaplain, a chapel, a nun who did pastoral work and moral education classes. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 136 |
| no | Total Seats: 19 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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| Random quote: "Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike." - Oscar Wilde |