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Bill: Foreign Missionaries
Details
Submitted by[?]: Kirlawan Lightning
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2387
Description[?]:
| This bill proposes that foreign missionaries be welcomed and encouraged by the government. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Current: The government requires foreign missionaries to register with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Proposed: Foreign missionaries are welcomed and encouraged by the government.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:37:39, April 03, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Lightning | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | Certain parties appear to fear religion and wish to impose a state religion of Atheism. Foreign missionaries will ensure that Kirlawa is a muliticultural country as it will bring new people and culture to our country. If we do not welcome them, we are imposing the Government's view on the people of Kirlawa. We should encourage people's freedom to follow a religion of their own choosing by welcoming missionaries. |
| Date | 18:46:53, April 03, 2007 CET | From | Liberal Progressive Party | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | We don't have any problem with the current system. As it is, missionaries flock to Kirlawa - maybe not as much as they have before, but there is still diversity. Our religious census from about 15 years ago: Atheist/Agnostic: 30% Christian (all sects): 47% * All Protestant: 29% * Veritan Catholic Church: 9% * Terran Catholic Church: 7% * Other: 2% Judaism: 9% Buddhism: 6% Muslim: 2% Other (incl. Sikhism, native beliefs): 6% As you can see, diversity is here, we don't need to take a state policy to encourage it. |
| Date | 21:46:35, April 03, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Popular Front | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | We see no reason for a SECULAR nation to promote or to curtail missionary work. They can come, and they can try, but we will neither put barriers in their way or help them. Please, we implore other parties, learn the difference between Secularism, Atheism, and banning religion. They are three different things. |
| Date | 06:55:12, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Lightning | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | Wikipedia says: Secularism, in one sense, asserts the freedom of religion, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions. (See also Separation of church and state; see also Laïcité.) Secularism, in another sense, refers to a belief that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on what it considers to be evidence and fact, not on beliefs that secularists consider superstitious. Secularists hold that public policy should be free from religious influence. Where religious based doctrines directly refer to absolute truth or divine law, secular law is based upon reasonableness which was developed during the the age of enlightenment. For example, a society deciding whether to promote condom use might consider the issues of disease prevention, family planning, and a belief in women's rights. A secularist would argue that such issues are relevant to public policy-making, whereas Biblical interpretation or church doctrine are irrelevant. Secularists believe that all activities falling outside of the private sphere should be secular, i.e. not religious (see also anticlericalism). P.S. I realise that Wikipedia is not a perfect information source |
| Date | 06:59:24, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Lightning | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | My understanding of the term Atheist is that the person believes there is no God, or any other supernatural powers. This is different to Agnostic, where the person thinks that the existence of God or the supernatural may be possible, they personally have no knowledge or belief in them. |
| Date | 07:01:22, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Lightning | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | Banning of religion = Banning of religious schools + banning the wearing of religious symbols and clothing + banning of prayers in schools |
| Date | 07:11:02, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Lightning | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | You may comment on whether Wikipedia's explanation of Secularism is consistent with your own. Basically, it appears to me that for Secularists, decisions should be made based on non-religious information and reasoning. This is fair enough. But I fail to see how banning religious schools, symbols, clothes, and prayers in schools is a logical conclusion of any evidence I am aware of. |
| Date | 09:51:43, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Popular Front | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, particularly on such a contentious subject, but it is close (although not necessarily accurate). Atheism = lack of belief in gods. Simple as that Secularism = the principle that Church and State should be seperate. That means that religion stays out of the Secular sphere, and likewise. We believe that Education is a secular activity. If parents want their children brought up in a religious tradition, they can do so in their own homes and attend temples. Fine. Likewise, when public officials are on duty, they should not also represent a religion. It may lead to fears of prejudice from other religions. It may appear to confer an 'official' seal of approval from the state. They can wear all the trinkets and hats or collars on their own time, just not the taxpayers. While this means keeping religion out of the State, it also means keeping the State out of religion. We don't propose limiting ANY religion. We don't condone interfering in missionary work, pay for priests, who gets to be a priest, or things like that. We are not 'anticlerical' - if you want your life to be dominated by priests and bishops and their views, go ahead. Just not on our time or on our taxes. The later aspects of the wikipedia definition are a bit shady. There is nothing wrong with using relgious morality to base your arguments upon. We prefer to temper that with a more rational basis, but they often complement. We won't throw out the crime of murder just because the Bible says 'thou shalt not kill'. We might debate the Death Penalty because we dispute 'An eye for an eye'. |
| Date | 09:56:43, April 04, 2007 CET | From | Liberal Progressive Party | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | Actually, just to correct a minor point here. Atheism means belief that there is no god. Agnosticism means lack of belief in gods. |
| Date | 01:26:41, April 05, 2007 CET | From | Socialist Advancement League | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | We don't fear religion, we just think that the religious are a bunch of pricks. |
| Date | 09:39:24, April 05, 2007 CET | From | Kirlawan Popular Front | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | No, LPP, Agnosticism is the lack of absolute faith. Most Agnostics are in doubt, rather than in rejection and usually about one particular religion. 'Gnosis' means knowledge, so Agnostic means not 'knowing', as in not being sure. Belief in no God == lack of belief in gods == Atheism. MCF - well, we wouldn't put it that way, although it's interesting that when the Fascists took power in the 2330s, it followed a religious resurgence and the growth of two Christian parties. The Veritan Catholic Church collaborated with the Fascist regime while a faction of the Protestant party worked with the Selucian and Dorvish invaders in northern Uwakah. By their deeds shall you know them. |
| Date | 05:00:12, April 10, 2007 CET | From | Venn Party | To | Debating the Foreign Missionaries |
| Message | We have to agree with the KPF on this one. Missionaries should not be encouraged or discouraged. No. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 43 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 171 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 86 |
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