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Bill: Union of Macon Withdrawal
Details
Submitted by[?]: Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM)
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2391
Description[?]:
| A proposal to withdraw. |
Proposals
Article 1
Withdraw from the First Constitution of the Union of Macon.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 21:09:48, April 18, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | Unfortuantely, we must once again propose this bill. Despite briefly getting better, the Union seems intent upon further centralisation, to the extent in which the nation states are getting less and less of a say. When a vote was taken on membership of the Union, I do not believe that we were being taken into what is seemingly becoming a military union. Whilst the Right is Right Party is not anti-militarist, we are pro-sovereignty, and to have the control of our armed forces taken away from us is something that we should not stand for. The Union should, if anything, be about increased co-operation between member nations, in an effort to make our economies better, or where the standing of life of citizens is improved. Both my party and the Le Chaim Party have made empassioned speeches against the idea of a more military union, and these very valid arguments have not even been answered. Such behaviour is clearly not appropriate, and it is obvious that the decision has already been made. We therefore urge all parties to vote in favour of this bill, and against the union, in protest at the way in which events are going. |
| Date | 21:26:40, April 18, 2007 CET | From | "Le Chaim" - Aesthetic Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | Unfortunately we have to agree. This project is dead... |
| Date | 21:30:47, April 18, 2007 CET | From | Conservative Union Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | We are in favour of the union partially. I'll probably abstain but I don't know for now... |
| Date | 21:32:43, April 18, 2007 CET | From | United Forces of Decay | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | The Union's leaders have become selfish and arrogant. Only a cultists' march to Telamon could persuade them that the leaders of the UFD are in deed not human, but ancient powers one has to respect. We share the feelings of our cabinet partner RiR. We'll wait how the other parties deal with this issue, then we'll decide whether we shall abstain here or vote fort this proposal. |
| Date | 22:08:25, April 18, 2007 CET | From | Centrist Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | RIR, we agree on some things, and disagree on others. This is one we disagree on. As for the union: I've never been in favour of it, or against it, I did not initiate it, but I tried to give it a real chance to succeed. Unfortunately, the union never got a fair and honest chance to succeed from this country. Number of withdraw bill from Telemon, zero. Number of withdraw bill from Davostan, zero. Number of withdraw bill from Hutori... what is it now, seven? Eight? At least eight, that's for sure. Hey RIR, you'll finally get what you have been wishing for all this time. You will have succeeded in destroying something so many of us tried to make great. All these "passionate speech" most sane people would call negativity and unproductive will have gotten the most of it. Those who cared and worked for it, are now leaving it because it has become polluted with negative/unproductive voices. And that's too bad. It's too bad that negative voices who wished to destroy it became louder than those who wished to make it work. With this bill, you are taking away a huge part of role playing in this game, RIR. The whole "foreign affair" part of the game will be gone (or at least a major part of it). And that also, is too bad. I vote no. I like this part of the roleplaying in this game. I don't want to see it go away. |
| Date | 23:25:04, April 18, 2007 CET | From | United Forces of Decay | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | We also have to agree with the Centrists here... We don't really wish to see the Union destroyed completely, although we have to say that we currently don't really care about this matter. The Union gives us the possibility to strengthen our influence over the citizens of the other states. And we have to admit that the CPA really tried to come to terms with us while cultists demonstrated in front of the Congress Hall. We don't think that the Union becomes too powerful and they really agreed to be on the whole an economic organization. And we also like the Centrists' proposal concerning the Union's troups. We still have to straighten out another thing: Everyone knows that Hutori doesn't really seem to like the idea of the Union. As far as we know, it was only possible because the New Democratic Party, that was a party in Telamon earlier, changed to Hutori and RiR did not realize what was going on here. And now nobody really likes it. We think that everyone likes to speak in the Congress, to gain influence over the development of Telamon and Davostan, but nobody really seems to like the Union in its current form here. What shall we do now? We also like the "role-playing", but should we really feel sorry for the Union? Is this the right thing? Should we really support an organization just because we like "role-playing"? If this was true, than the nature of the Union and its purpose isn't really important, and we don't think that this is the right way. We shall wait how this developes and then we'll decide wether we support the Centrists, RiR or no one here. |
| Date | 23:55:23, April 18, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | Centrist Party: We understand your concerns on the role-playing side of things. But when points of view are drowned out immediately and cast aside, there is not much to enjoy. For example, our arguments against the military aspect has not been listened to at all. It may be negative, but it is not unproductive. As for your statistics regarding the number of withdrawal bills, surely this shows you something about how uneasy it is for Hutori to remain in the alliance. And we would like to remind all that the first/second (?) withdrawal bill that was proposed, our party actually had the casting vote, yet we decided to vote against withdrawal to give things a chance. We have given it that chance, and it is clear that the Union is not going to change for the better. We would be happy, after we have withdrawn from this, to look into a better form of union. However, the union as it stands is a terrible organisation, and damaging to Hutori. |
| Date | 09:21:32, April 19, 2007 CET | From | "Le Chaim" - Aesthetic Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | I have to say: I think everybody knows I was completely for this union at the beginning. I was hoping for a union of visions, a union for the people, an economic union, maybe later a political or whatever. I agree that the union itself had difficulties with several senseless and destructive Hutorian withdrawal-acts. But still: Look at the union as it is right now. What has it acchieved? The problem is not that it's not much. The problem is that what the union has been able to create since today is nothing but the position of Cic and "a new policy for war". This union that was meant to be a continental peace project built on ecenomic wealth, cultural friendship and joint policies, has become a pure militarist centralization union. And that is what we simply can't agree with. |
| Date | 09:23:01, April 19, 2007 CET | From | "Le Chaim" - Aesthetic Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | it is "until today"... |
| Date | 18:50:42, April 19, 2007 CET | From | Centrist Party | To | Debating the Union of Macon Withdrawal |
| Message | RIR: I had forgotten about that "decisive vote" you had casted. I retract some of my statements above. However I still believe no matter what the union would have done, you would have been against it since you are against sharing responsabilities with the union. If we don't give awayany of our power as a government, of course the union will always be useless. We must first give it responsabilities if we want it to be meaningful. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 142 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 36 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 72 |
| Random fact: The Real-Life Equivalents Index is a valuable resource for finding out the in-game equivalents of real-life cultures, languages, religions, people and places: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6731 |
| Random quote: "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson |