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Bill: Full Defense Act

Details

Submitted by[?]: Plinio's United Followers

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: February 2093

Description[?]:

War is very expensive for our country and should be avoided at all cost. But if we ever get attacked, let us not fight with one hand tied behind our hands. This does not neccesarily mean that we will destroy everything, but lets not tie ourselves with our own laws.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date02:19:39, August 06, 2005 CET
FromFantastic Party
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageYes, wonder when this changed.

Date07:10:15, August 06, 2005 CET
FromMordusian Inclusion Party
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageThese were added recently, I think.

Date11:27:13, August 06, 2005 CET
FromMillennial Salvation Front
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageIf we abandon the first strike policy, then we also abandon the moral high ground. This is a dangerous proposal.

Date11:59:27, August 06, 2005 CET
FromPlinio's United Followers
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageThe idea of this bill is mainly to avoid wars altogether. We should not get into any war period. With this bill it will deter other countries from attacking us in a bunch of costly minor limited wars that will bleed us dry to death. We simply dont take war as a game.

Date12:20:53, August 06, 2005 CET
FromPlinio's United Followers
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageOOC: I usually review the "law sticky" thread in the forum to view what changes have been done recently.

Date23:13:57, August 06, 2005 CET
FromMillennial Salvation Front
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageAbandoning the first strike policy could lead to other nations doing the same, meaning that any conflict will become more likelier to turn nuclear.

Another absurd proposal from the IMA.

Date02:02:17, August 07, 2005 CET
FromPlinio's United Followers
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageThere should not be any conflict in the same place period. This is a message to the other nations that we are not joking around and that they should not mess with ours. Our goverment is mainly isolationist so there is no reason for us to get into any pety squabbles with other goverments.

Date03:33:04, August 07, 2005 CET
FromMillennial Salvation Front
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageYet this bill runs counter to our isolationist stance, at it makes our state look aggressive and unstable. If we are to use WMDs only in our defense, then why state openly that we could also use them on the offense?

The no first strike policy is a good policy, and a moral policy. Open advocacy of the offensive use of WMDs is the reserve of tinpot dictatorships and failed states, and has no place in Mordusia.

Date07:01:19, August 07, 2005 CET
FromMordusian Inclusion Party
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageExcellent point, MSF. I agree with you on this issue.

Date22:32:01, August 07, 2005 CET
FromPlinio's United Followers
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageBut a country may decide to attack us on a conventional war with the security that we wont use any nuclear weapons then. Then we will have half of our weapons rendered unusable while a non nuclear country can concentrate their whole budget on conventional weapons. We will be fighting with a hand tied behind our backs, and we will be saying "its ok to attack us as long as you dont use nuclear weapons".

Date05:35:35, August 08, 2005 CET
FromMillennial Salvation Front
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageHuh? Are you advocating that nuclear weapons should be used in a conventional war? Nuking our enemies during a conventional war would surely force them to nuke us back.

It would be better not to provoke our potential enemies, by adopting your policy of slinging nuclear warheads if they look at us funny.

Date12:49:09, August 08, 2005 CET
FromPlinio's United Followers
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageNope, Im saying we shouldnt get in a conventional war in the first place. Besides, some of our tactical nuclear weapons are designed to hit submarines and to block passages, not every attack has to be on a civilian capitol.

Anyway, all has been said, moving to a vote before the end of term.

Date18:37:22, August 08, 2005 CET
FromMillennial Salvation Front
ToDebating the Full Defense Act
MessageA nuclear strike, even on a submarine, would cause an enemy state to hit us back.

And if you do not want to get into conventional wars, then you do not give your potential enemies any excuses to attack. Our potential adversaries could use our abandonment of the first strike policy as justification to invade, before we let loose our arsenal of WMDs. That is not the public image Mordusia should have. Vote no.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
    

Total Seats: 113

no
   

Total Seats: 140

abstain

    Total Seats: 0


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