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Bill: Save the Economy
Details
Submitted by[?]: Tuesday Is Coming
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2096
Description[?]:
| We currently are systematically destroying our economy through "democratic worker's councils." As this experimental philosophy has already done enough damage, we will put an end to it as soon as possible. This bill will be submitted without debate due to the urgency. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy on industry and subsidies to industrial operations.
Old value:: invalid choice
Current: The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services.
Proposed: The government does not intervene in the market nor provide any form of subsidies/relief to industries.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:12:58, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Please prove that it actually is doing damage. |
| Date | 01:14:09, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | I request that all parties vote "No" untill there has been a debate. |
| Date | 03:14:08, August 16, 2005 CET | From |  National People's Gang | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | As Lodamun is currently producing a surplus of 9,867,063,170 LOD, this is insanity. "As this experimental philosophy has already done enough damage", is therefore a lie. |
| Date | 03:54:34, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Fellow parties, please realize that you are voting destroy a bill that isn't proven to do harm and increases democracy in the workplace simply because you -- and TiC -- have a standing but not justifiable belief that this system can't work. It is working. TiC has proposed this with no evidence and and/or is lying through their teeth. In addition I'd like to note this bill shall be considered unconstitutional because it was not subject to at least 8 months of debate as is the law. |
| Date | 04:01:11, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | The current economic data is temporary, and not based on anything |
| Date | 04:02:37, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | "TiC has proposed this with no evidence and and/or is lying through their teeth. In addition I'd like to note this bill shall be considered unconstitutional because it was not subject to at least 8 months of debate as is the law." Here is the bill that would have made that a law, take a look at the part at the top that says "defeated". http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=11111 |
| Date | 04:03:16, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Then you can't prove the economy is failing especially not because of the worker's councils. |
| Date | 04:05:55, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | its still not very nice :P |
| Date | 04:38:51, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | voting no for the reasons stated by DSP. |
| Date | 04:48:16, August 16, 2005 CET | From | CNT/AFL | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | This is the first thing we're going to bring back as soon as the left has a majority, how long that takes does not bother us. |
| Date | 06:21:53, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | in fact we have had worker cooperatives in industry since 2049, as can be seen from the Equista's first bill: http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=2967 |
| Date | 06:40:45, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | This bill does not prohibit workers from voluntarily forming whatever companies they choose to form, using their own resources. This will return all property to those it was seized from. |
| Date | 08:01:40, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | by seizing it from those that deserve it. |
| Date | 08:05:29, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | I used to sympathize with the conservative Libertarian parties (formerly being a member a liberal libertarian). If this bill passes, I will have lost all respect for them, especially TiC. |
| Date | 15:14:15, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Why? A democratic workers council doesnt deserve anything more than the wage they contract for. They deserve only what they are voluntarily given. To seize property to give it to someone because they "deserve" it more, is wrong. If a lack of willingness to steal, or a comittment to Justice bothers you so much... |
| Date | 17:38:40, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | "I used to sympathize with the conservative Libertarian parties (formerly being a member a liberal libertarian). If this bill passes, I will have lost all respect for them, especially TiC." A lesson we all must learn, it seems. There are members of the Green committees of correspondence who used to serve as government partners with these two parties, only to see them attack our environmental legacy once they held power without needing our votes. It is a mistake we shall not make again. |
| Date | 18:36:37, August 16, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Our environmental policy has been clear since 2068. |
| Date | 00:37:37, August 17, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Because you created a bill with an extremely propagandistic name trying to convince us that the economy is in a state of emergency when you have no evidence of anything of the sort. This bill has nothing to do with a failing economy and everything to do with the conservative ideal that workers councils can't work despite things showing they are. ((OOC: Dare I say you're Bush.)) |
| Date | 01:43:18, August 17, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | Everything I know about economics, from studying it, shows that democratic methods are not feasible. A majority of my peers at every job I have ever worked at are definitely less qualified to run the company than the owners or the management. Management requires certain qualities. Some managers are better than others. If a manager does poorly, they can be replaced. If the entire workforce of a company makes poor decisions, they will not remove themselves. Everything I know about morality, says that the workers only "deserve" what someone else is willing to give them(the same goes for the employers). No one "deserves" to recieve something that belongs to someone else(without their consent). Ever. Not Hitler, not a pickpocket, not the USA, not welfare recipients. If someone invests their funds, and creates a company, they deserve to run it as they see fit and to recognize any profits that can be made. They are liable for the potential losses as well. The workers at the company are not liable for the losses, nor for the profits. They are responsible for their job description. They deserve their agreed-upon wage/benefits, not a penny more. It is our informed opinion that this "democratic workers councils" theory will not work. There is nothing to show that they are working. Cite evidence to the contrary if you can. There is no economic justification for doing this, history has shown that the populace as a whole benefits from increased prosperity. This is exactly the wrong way to prolong or create a prosperous situation. Even worse, however, there is no moral justification for seizing what belongs to someone else to give it to another party. The workers don't have any rights to the property of another, unless someone else promises it to them as part of a contract, etc. ((Bush? Because Bush would legalize drugs, etc?)) |
| Date | 02:22:29, August 17, 2005 CET | From | Royal Conservative Party | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | "Because Bush would legalise drugs" No, Bush wouldn't be that stupid |
| Date | 05:21:35, August 17, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Save the Economy |
| Message | My point was that I am not Bush, because we differ on so many policies. Drug laws are an obvious example... |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 239 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 211 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: You can inactivate yourself on your User Page. You will then lose all your seats but your party account won't be deleted, and your party's Visibility ratings will not diminish. Reactivation can be requested in the "Reactivation Requests" thread in the Game Moderation section of the Particracy Forum. |
| Random quote: "Communism: liberation of the people from the burdens of liberty." - Rick Bayan |