We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: New national motto
Details
Submitted by[?]: National Authoritarian Movement
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2463
Description[?]:
| What about a new motto? I suggest the following one: Liberty, Unity and Justice. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The national motto.
Old value:: "Liberty Forever"
Current: Sub la Sankta Signo de l' Espero (Under the Sacred Sign of Hope)
Proposed: "Liberty and Justice forever"
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:33:00, September 27, 2007 CET | From |  Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | OCC In the 40s when we revised the motto I was very happy with it. I still am today. Simplistic, straight to the point, shows what Zardugal's first priority is. |
| Date | 09:24:32, September 27, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Since we are the UNITED provinces, unity should get more importance. btw: Liberty is still on first position. |
| Date | 03:55:12, September 28, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | We're United......loosely. We're more of a Federation. Oh, the mods will be changing our name to the Free Federation of Zardugal when they have time, a few weeks back we got that changed by a 2/3 majority, Unity will be irrelavent. Now that I think about it even more, no, we're hardly united. Our provinces are some of the most automous in Terra. BTW: Is English your first language? |
| Date | 03:56:11, September 28, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Oh, just another note; Your a hypocrite. Your party is authoritarian, but you realize that Liberty sounds better then Tyranny. |
| Date | 09:54:03, September 28, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | No, english isn't my first language. Anyway, I hope you can understand me quite well. Oh, I haven't seen the name change debate yet. Since I decided to be an authoritarian right wing party, I'll try to form a national state out of these losely connected provinces. So I'll try to get more seats in the next election to have a little more influence. Then I will suggest some new bills to strenghten the authority of the state and reduce local governments influence. Oh, b.t.w.: Even if I'm an authoritarian party, I can use Liberty as state slogan since I only have another interpretation of it. Did you ever seen an authoritarian state which has called himself a tyranny? |
| Date | 00:08:39, September 29, 2007 CET | From | Libertad Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | "We support this national motto, finding that it gives Justice the place it deserves, as one of the major tenets of Zardugal." -Donovan Christoph, speaker for The Libertad party |
| Date | 07:21:24, September 29, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Ah, I see. Would you mind telling me what country you reside in, you use English in, like, a different dialect then I. Hmm. Back on topic: I've tried to shape the law so that the people have many civil and political rights protected by the central government, who also manages the stuff that Zardugal does as a whole, like defense and foreign relations. We haven't really gave local governments more power, just more duty's. More management. They know their area, and we give them the power to manage it according to the local needs. It also alows for friendly policy competition between the states, frees up central government staff and has a tendancy to create less redtape and beaucracy (bad spelling). As for your interperation of Liberty, it's one of those ideas that only has one interpertation. Libertarians love it, fascists hate it, people like Mussolini have preached against Liberty, as they interpertate it as giving the indivdual maxium freedom, he hated that, Libertarians love it. It really can't be interpertated. Authoritarian states have not likened themselves to Tyranny, but a lack of Liberty, trying to point out it's flaws etc I would have imagined your party would have used something like "Order" or "Power" to represent your Tyranical views. Just how do you interperate the word "Liberty"? As for the new motto debate, I'd suggest "Liberty and Justice" if we wanted to include "Justice", though I don't think it's really necessary. Every nation has some form of justice. It's very open to interpertation. As I summed up before, "Liberty" has a clear, concise meaning. I guess I just really like the meaning of our current motto, "Liberty Forever". Not matter what happens to Zardugal, we'll always fight for our Liberty. You can't have Zardugal without Liberty. |
| Date | 09:45:55, September 29, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | I live in Germany, and the strange dialect is maybe just wrong ;) Liberty can have as many different interpretations as justice. In many cases, liberty is not the same like liberty of individuals. For example socialistic countries had an interpretation for liberty, which meant that they are independent from other countries, independent from capitalism and all its negative aspects. In their interpretation, the people there where really free, because they where not influenced by other ideologies and the state took care for them in any case. In fact they were not free at all. But the state promotes the way of freedom in his view. I hope I was able to make clear that every slogan can be seen in many aspects. Its up to us to give it the meaning we expect from it. |
| Date | 15:48:26, September 29, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Okay, so I offer "Liberty and justice forever" as a possible compromise on this issue. |
| Date | 22:49:50, September 29, 2007 CET | From | Libertad Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | OOC: Wohin(her) kommen Sie, NAM? IC: While justice can, indeed, have several meanings, justice is one of the things that all nations need, especially one that places so much necessity on freedom. |
| Date | 02:35:19, September 30, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Berlin, Germany. As already said, "Liberty and justice forever" is my new proposal. |
| Date | 09:57:31, September 30, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | OCC: LOL, typical German; shitty English and authoritarian politics :P Ha ha, no I like Germany, it was the North and South Korea of the cold war, you just had to compare the two to compare capitalism and socialism. As for liberty: I guess, though that's a poor interpretation of Liberty, a socialist would probably use a different term, since Liberty is so closely associated with free market capitalism and the USA in general. And the new slogan: Just doesn't sound right. Liberty sums up what we're for, justice comes with liberty, no reason to distort the motto. |
| Date | 12:39:51, September 30, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Oh well, I've chosen to play an authoritarian party because there seem to be a huge mass of libertarian parties on terra. It's actually a kind of experiment how this works. Justice expresses, that our interprettion of freedom differs from anarchy. Noone can set his own freedom over the freedom of others. There are still some rules which have to be accepted. That's what justice means. |
| Date | 13:44:39, September 30, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Well, good on you, I like to have an opposition, I'm waiting for the old Bolshevik party to come back, they were always popular with the voters but not with the others parties, that was real fun. Gosh I remember being the only Libertarian party in Zardugal at the time, some days I wish the Neo-Libs and Stoic parties would disband and the Cavs go back to their former staunch conservative politics, that's real particracy :P Justice could mean anything from gassing Jews for they're attempted corruption of the Aryan race to killing someone for murdering another. It could mean anything. I don't think it should have a place in the motto, as it's for too susceptible to interpretation. |
| Date | 13:56:34, September 30, 2007 CET | From | Libertad Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Actually, liberty can come without justice. In an anarchistic society, freedoms of the people actually prevent justice. |
| Date | 14:25:34, September 30, 2007 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Really strange interpretations of justice. I mean, there's a kind of real justice. It's a feeling inside, which lets you know if something is fair or not. Its maybe the biggest task for a state, to be as fair as possible to all its individuals. This fairness can inplement liberty as well. Therefore justice is even bigger than liberty. |
| Date | 02:02:38, October 01, 2007 CET | From | Libertad Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Real justice depends on your interpretations of it. for example, I think Michael Jackson was guilty, but he was given an innocent verdict. Therefore, there was no justice for me, but someone who thought he was innocent would think that there was justice. |
| Date | 06:01:04, October 01, 2007 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the New national motto |
| Message | Well, I'll support either one or the other. Liberty and Justice Forever sounds stupid, frankly. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 75 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 288 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 38 |
| Random fact: "Treaty-locking", or ratifiying treaties that completely or nearly completely forbid any proposals to change laws, is not allowed. Amongst other possible sanctions, Moderation reserves the discretion to delete treaties and/or subject parties to a seat reset if this is necessary in order to reverse a treaty-lock situation. |
| Random quote: "It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required." - Winston Churchill |