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Bill: Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft
Details
Submitted by[?]: Imperial Cildanian Egoists
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2466
Description[?]:
| RESOLVED: That the Cildanian Republic be renamed the Cildanian Empire RESOLVED: That the true ideals of the Cildanian people demand Liberty, and that an Imperial Cildania would be superior in virtually every way to the advancement of the cause of Liberty. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Structure of the executive branch.
Old value:: The Head of State and Head of Government are two separate officials.
Current: The Head of State is also Head of Government.
Proposed: The Head of State is hereditary and symbolic; the Head of Government chairs the cabinet.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The formal title of the Head of State.
Old value:: President
Current: Supreme Chancellor of the Great Cildanian Legislative Body
Proposed: Emperor
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The official title of the legislative assembly.
Old value:: Senate
Current: Kunsill tad-Deputati (Council of Deputies)
Proposed: Imperial Senate
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:37:48, October 02, 2007 CET | From |  Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Thoughts? |
| Date | 18:43:24, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | We haven't the heirs of the Five Princes to justify it. Canton is fine, we havent the Dukes and you havent the right to grant that title. Chancellor is more imperial than Consul anyway. And Liberty and Purple Dictatorship are quite different things altogether. |
| Date | 18:44:04, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Justice League of Cildania | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | We might agree to the reduction of assembly seats, but the rest of these consolidations of power are statist and unjust without a proper constitution that protects the rights and properties of the people. |
| Date | 18:50:40, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Changes which are primarily semantic and rhetorical are statist and unjust? Please explain this rationale to us. |
| Date | 18:53:42, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | And above everything else think of the paperwork, all documents with the word Canton having to be changed, madness and expensive madness too. Maps, signposts everything! |
| Date | 19:10:12, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Our "comrades" in Action make many valid points in regard to Cantons. This aspect of the proposal will be dropped. |
| Date | 19:12:18, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Also, a "Purple dictatorship" as you put it, would be the greatest friend of Liberty Cildania could have. Resolutely libertarian dictators would make far superior policy to the fickle tides of democratic whim. |
| Date | 19:19:40, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Purple is Monarch, i.e. Death to Purple Tyrants everywhere being the famous french quote. and your confusing Libertarian with liberal. |
| Date | 19:45:58, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Cildania Progressive Party | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | The rights of citizens must be maintained, we do not subscribe to this proposed dictatorship. May democracr rule always over the republic. |
| Date | 20:00:10, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Not at all. Libertarians believe in freedom from the government. A Libertarian dictatorship would be one in which, to the greatest extent possible in a stable society, individuals were free from the influence of government, whether they wished to be or not. A bit of a twist on the classic "Live free or die." |
| Date | 20:29:15, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Marxist-Leninist Happiness Front | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Reducing the elections to every 72 months by itself guarantees I'll never vote for this. Hard enough keeping parties around until they gain seats in the subsequent election with elections every week. Making them every week is a recipe to increase party turnover and just make the game less fun for all involved. As for the title of Emperor. I assume the title goes to "Superman" and Justice? A more non-partisan figurehead would be more likely to get our support. Also a bit silly to call an island an "Empire." That title implies the conquest of different realms which we have quite yet to do. We got go along with the title Lord Protector. Or just have a straight out King, Duke, Margrave, or whatever if it has to be something explicitly royalist. |
| Date | 21:28:29, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Space, Technology, Eugenics And Monarchy | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | The Alliance would prefer a Technocratic government. It will support changes in the direction of Empire as an appropriate step away from democracy. Actual terminology is irrelevant as long as the intent is in favor of progress. Democracy is the most inferior of governments. |
| Date | 21:32:59, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | The Island is an empire as Cildania conquered by force the Island during the War of Unification following the dissolveing of Council of the Five Princes after the Prince of Akildar declared himself Divine Emperor of the Cildanian Empire. There is no right for Kent to claim the right to the title of King or Earl as he is not of direct lineage from one of the Princes. Duke can be earned, but an heir would have to be found to grant such a title. |
| Date | 22:05:46, October 02, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | We have modified our proposal. Is the current draft more acceptable to those who took issue with the first draft? |
| Date | 22:49:38, October 03, 2007 CET | From | Christian Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | OOC- Emperor-Elect à la Holy Roman Empire or pre-Norman England gets around the rights of descent problem as Kent isn't of the Royal Blood, he is a foreigner. And theres not an Emperor-Elect in the history of the world who hasnt tried the trick of handing the throne onto his son when he dies, but superman can never die so succession from him is no problem. Would the Imperial Senate involve a relocation of the house of government or merely a retitling? |
| Date | 00:21:05, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Justice League of Cildania | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Well if we were to switch to an empire, we would decide on an emperor then all name him/her as our own presidential candidate. Then we could change the constitution. |
| Date | 01:08:36, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | If we can obtain sufficient support to amend the constitution now, what need for collectively naming a candidate. Would not Superman! be the Emperor if the changes were made prior to the next election? As to the Imperial Senate, it would be a semantic change, not a geographical one, to reflect the reduced size and royalist nature. |
| Date | 01:51:09, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Christian Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | But it wouldn't BE royalist, just Imperial unless someone of royal descent, if not Akildan descent than atleast one of the lesser states Prince-lines or Royalty from abroad, although only as alast resort, Superman could never be Royal as he cannot die and therefore there is no succession, he represents stability by himself not though a system which outlives him. He could be an Emperor, but it would be a Dictatorial or Elected Emperor rather than a Monarchy unless Nepotism was used to select the upper branches of the civil service which you are on your way to abolishing anyway. Superman would not be a good Emperor for life, as he's insane in his beliefs that power can only come from the barrel of a gun and that corporations and incredibly wealth individuals cannot oppress nations far more effectively than militaries or nations ever could as he truly believes the cover stories and copitalist propaganda, which he never did before his transportation onto Terra. If a Monarch was to be found and have the claim actually mean anything rather than it just be used a propaganda to justify the end of democracy, the Royal Candidate would have to be chosen from the remaining Nobles and Peers and approved by Patriarch Gregory III or a Papal Delegation, as have happened each time the line of succession has failed in the past. As to the title the Imperial Senate if it just a name might as well just be implied and left as it is, If it is the Senate of the Empire then it is by default the Imperial Senate and can be left as Senate in terms of its official name although it would refer to itself as the Imperial Senate on deed and stone it would still be the Senate. The administration which calls for this is one famed for going out of its way to work out ways for the government not to spend money and for so to allow such a vast expenditure to make such superficial a change as adding an implied word onto the Senate, a subject which is mentioned on so many documents, seems to go against Party Principle. Remember almost all government paperwork, tourist pamphlets and road maps feature the Senate quite prominently not to mention all the pubs and roads named after the thing, quite expensive both to Government and to the Private Business. |
| Date | 09:44:37, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Justice League of Cildania | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | During the Cildanian golden age of 2401 to 2432, no one bothered with the dark-age notions of bloodlines or royalty. Superman was merely given the honorary title of Guardian Protector, established as a symbolic figurehead, and granted no actual powers of government. As far as the JLC is concerned, the subsequent organization of government is not very relevant. As long as there is an inviolable constitution guaranteeing the rights of people and property, and securing the government as servant and protector to the individual citizen. We prefer constitutional minarchy, but constitutional monarchy or empire could be acceptable. Our point is that we've skipped a step here, and we shouldn't go about creating empires before we make sure human rights are protected. |
| Date | 16:26:04, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Christian Action | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Only a golden age from the perception of he who led it, In the eyes of the CNP the Golden Age was during the Patriarch and the Council's Rule. But your point is correct, there need be no notion of Blood Right for the title Guardian Protector is not one which used for one without the right of birth is insultive and false. For Kent to be named Guardian Protector is perfectly acceptable as it is not actually a title tied to monarchist tradition. and after its invention it was used for Kent so there would be little issue to revive it for him. Kent could not be a Monarch for the same reason that Napoleon is remembered as a Dictator and Emperor rather than the King he thought he was, One generation isn't a monarchy, for Monarchy is in its basest and truest form one of stability though hereditary succession, be it father to son, King to nephew or Noble to Noble, Monarchism is based on the Belief that those who are raised from birth to Rule the Nation are better suited than someone trained for business or war for the same reason that a man born to fishermen and raised from boyhood to fish to seen as potentially a more capable fisherman than a soldier whos so much as never seen the sea. He has the skills for it and knows whats expected of him, Of course Monarchism like all forces soon corrupted and lead to Absolutism and Divine Right, which lead to the incapibles and the legitimism of Versailles which brought an end to the monarchies of europe, be it though revolution or the slow slide from Monarchist leadership to Monarchist Dictatorship. There would be no objection, if forced to abandon the presidency onto unmovable JLC rule, to Ken carrying the title of Guardian Protector, but would prefer if the democratic executive to be abandoned for a monarch of true title and Right to be found. |
| Date | 18:22:51, October 04, 2007 CET | From | Imperial Cildanian Egoists | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Feel free to reject if you believe the timing is off. If it gets any farther down the main list, we may forget it is here and duplicate it before it is even voted on. |
| Date | 14:49:53, October 05, 2007 CET | From | Marxist-Leninist Happiness Front | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | So if this passes Justice's "superman" gets head of state permanently? How does this work? We'd feel safer voting for this if we had the assurance this figurehead would be completely non-partisan and symbolic. |
| Date | 21:10:12, October 05, 2007 CET | From | Peoples Revolutionary Front | To | Debating the Birth of Empire: Please Comment on this Draft |
| Message | Seriously, Stop watching star wars. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 96 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 82 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 222 |
| Random fact: Players who deliberately attempt to present a misleading picture of the nation's current RP laws will be subject to sanction. |
| Random quote: "Envy is the cause of political division." - Democritus |