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Bill: Immigration
Details
Submitted by[?]: Alorian Socialist Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 2104
Description[?]:
| It has come to my attention that immigration is unregulated, this must be stopped as it may cause soical issues within the regions and leaves open to infiltration by economic migrants and possible terrorists. As a result I propose a system where we assess applicants on their qualifications so we get people who can work for our society as opposed to living off it! This way all would benifit. Note that this does not effect our asylum policy to refugees, indeed we wont be asking if they have a degree in chemistry before letting them in. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning immigration.
Old value:: Everyone is allowed to reside permanently in this nation.
Current: There are quotas based on nationality to determine how many foreigners may reside permanently in this nation.
Proposed: Quotas are based on individual applicant's qualifications.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:23:06, August 26, 2005 CET | From |  Socialist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I rise in total opposistion to this proposterous bill. The issue of immigration is often scare-mongered byn the far right in politics, the problems are not anything like they would want you to suggest. Immigration benifits this country. A huge percentage of the workers in our health service are foreign and many low-skilled jobs are taken up by immigrants. The Socialist Liberal Party will always oppose immigration quotas. |
| Date | 23:27:59, August 26, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | The Freedom Party refuses to buy into the idiotic fear mongering that so often accompanies tragedy. Since the existence of the Freedom Party there has been but one terrorist attack and we do not know from whence the perpetrators came. |
| Date | 13:51:31, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Alorian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Far Right......That was a low blow! Just because you believe in a immigration policy does not make you right (or should I say wrong) wing! First with the terrorism, at the moment our immigration is unregulated. Our boarders are open, which means anyone can quite merrily walk in and do whatever, we would not know who they are, where they come from (which I believe was one of the problems encountered) or how they got here, with a closed boarder and fair immigration control the treat of foreign terrorism will of cause be reduced and a safe place for tourists and nationals can be created! As for the first, true, imigration is scaremongered but not by us, we have objectively looked at the situation and come to this as a logical conclusion! I am not proposing a closed state, we want immigration, but we want trained workers who will benifit the state not health and economic migrants who come hear for our excellent welfare system. Finally I must say that I am shocked that the apparent "socialist" liberal party has come out in the open to endorse migrant labour! You have declared openly that you support the slave system that is a cheap workforce pulled here by the capitalists to work hard hours in poor accomodation sometimes risking life and limb for a slap in the face and a mimimum wage! You directly endorse Aloria takeing advantage of the poor on our world, all in the pursuit of profit! I suggest you reconsider your policy. |
| Date | 19:45:46, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Yes, and YOU have proposed a bourgeious immigration policy that lets only those who are doctors, lawyers, and those who have money into Aloria. This has nothing to do with them being or not being terrorists. |
| Date | 21:55:52, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Socialist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Leader of the Socialist Liberal Party, Thomas Wickersham addressed the floor: Mr. Speaker, The Socialist Liberal Party completely rebutts what the Alorian Socialist Party has insinuated. Firstly, it is entirely wrong to believe that terrorists are nobrainers who have no qualifications. To become a successful terrorist, one needs to have a logical mind that can evade capture. These rediculous quotas will not aid this as it highly likely that these terrorists which the honerable member suggests are numerous in our nation will be highly trained individuals. Mr. Speaker, economic and health migration are a hugley exaggurated problem. The vast majortiy of people who come into this country are people honestly wanting to help this country. However, Mr. Speaker, I honestly believe that our nations policies should not only benifit the people of this country. I feel that if people can get a better life here, we should let them. This country has not got a population density problem. At only 39.84 people per square metre (OOC: In the UK it's nearer 250) we can afford to make people's lives better. That is what the government is for! Mr. Speaker, towards the end of the honerable member's rhetoric, he decided it best to have a scaving attack on our "apparent" support for the exploitation of migrant workers. This statement is completely inconsidered and out of line with the Socialist Liberal Party's policy. What the Socialist Liberal Party believe is that we have a growing population of univeristy workers. And whilst we have an abundace of applications for A and AB occupations, the lower end of the job market is unfulfilled. Migrant workers that come here can fill those jobs. Mr. Speaker, I think it is benificial for those people to work in this country. In Aloria, we have health and saftey regulations, business regulation and a minimum wage. Would the honerable member prefer for these people to be working in nations where there is no minimum wage, where there are no working practise regulations and where anything goes when it comes to health and saftey regulations. Mr. Speaker, the Socialist Liberal Party will not cease in opposistion to this bill until it is failed. This rediculous pice of legislation ensures that Aloria admits those from the A and AB social classes. This wrong for two reasons. Firstly, these are the upper class of society. How can we fly the red flag whilst only admitting the rotten upper classes into our nation. That is inherently wrong and it is against our founding principles to support this. Furthermore, this will just increase unemployment. If we have loads of applicants for the same jobs and only for those jobs, unemployment will rise and inflation will go through the roof. I suggest that the Alorian Socialist Party goes back to the drawing board with this awful legislation and realise what it means to fly the red flag. |
| Date | 13:55:23, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Alorian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Firstly I would like to remind our comrades in the SLP that I have never suggested that terrorists are un-qualified individuals, nor have I ever stated the number of terrorists that reside in Aloria, indeed I am mearly suggesting that a regulated immigration policy will be better than an unregulated one as it means that individuals will be checked at immigration points rather than just flooding accross our current open boarder. In responce to the rape of our social systems, the problems may be small in comparison with overall spending but they are present and should be eliminated, this bill will solve this and ensure that only those who can help our country are let through! We do indeed have the space for immigration, this is why it will still be permitted but in a regulated way. Just like when the SLP stood up in support of private property with its land ownership bill the SLP has again gone against the aim of the socialist movement, our duty it move society towards perfection, towards communism. By voting against this bill is to stike a blow against that goal, if we continue to allow immigrant workers with no benifitial skills into our country we will be acting as a charity to the capitalists by removing those levels of society that are most likely to breed revolution. If all the oppressed come here for a better life who will rise up to crush the source of corruption elsewhere? As for the fear mongering of the SLP that we will run out of lowerskilled jobs and that unemplyment will rise, I answer this. Unemplyment will not rise as due to the fact we will be setting quotas on peoples skills, if we have too many doctors applying or detect that our education system is producing sufficient quantities of doctors then we will close the gates to doctors. Indeed having an open boarder is worse as it allows anyone to enter flooding the system with skills we may not need. As for the lowerskilled jobs issue we are not assesing people on if they belong to a high/low skilled job we are assesing them on their skill in general, the rule above applies equally to mechanics and plumbers as it does to physicians and architecs. For the exteme low skilled jobs like self-stacking we have the "yet to be educated" to fill that role so the problem is solved! As said to the remark on class admission, I say do not underestimate the proletarians ability to be educated and as we are assessing on qualification and not social standing all who meet our job quota needs have equal oportunity to get admitted. Comrades I admit my attack on the SLP was maby too harsh and for that we beg forgiveness, we were slightly bad tempered after the land laws were altered. We urge, nay beg the SLP members and those of the Freedom party to look at the above argument and see that what is proposed is best for Aloria, the wider revolutionary movement, everyone! I hope that I have moved your fears on the issue and explained my policy. |
| Date | 23:53:42, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Socialist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Thomas Wickersham once again approached the dispatch box to make the following speech to Parliament: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the honerable member before me has realised that this legislation will not crack down on terrorists entering the country, and he has also admitted that the current system does not result in large amounts of terorrists. However, he still seems to stand by his arguement, and I wish to add some final comments regarding this matter. If we are to pass this bill to crack down on terorrists entering this country, what kind of country are we? Do we really want to be a country whose policy is dictated by terorrists? I say no. The SLP says no. We must stand up to terrorists and not let them affect our daily lives. We move onto the next point raised and we see a rather incoherent arguement from the honerable member before me. We obviously have a complete ideological disagreement in that he believes in a immigration system that serves the state. I believe in an immigration system that serves the individual. If people desire to live in this country, why should we stop them? Well, I have heard the arguement from the honerable member that it is the duty of the lower classes to lead a revolt in the more capitalist countries. THis is wrong. It is not up to the people to change dictitorial and capitalist countries. It is international pressure that must do this and it is our duty to ensure this happens. Mr. Speaker, we still, therefore, will be rejecting this bill when it comes to the vote. OOC: Sorry I couldn't write more, tied for time. |
| Date | 12:39:48, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Alorian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | The SLP appears to have drawn some interesting conclusions from our previous statement, firstly how can they say that this bill will not crack down on terrorists, it will do a darn sight more than an open boarder and the background checks required will enable us to determine more about the individual and their potential to cause harm than the current open system. It does not matter how many terrorists are involved, that is beside the point, the SLP is misguided if it thinks that a few terrorists are not a theat. The SLP also believes in sitting back and doing nothing it would seem to prevent terrorism, although this bill is not primaryly designed to prevent terrorism the boarder control benifits that it will bring will nether the less aid the cause, plus boarder checks will hardly effect the populances daily lives! The individual, the individual they say ,we are constantly hearing of the rights of the individual from the SLP, I am starting to wonder if the SLP has a firm grasp of socialist ideology. Socialism is about society not the individual, the SLP should be supporting the society aka the state, we are the representatives of the people, and we must do what is best for them not what is best for the individual imigrant. A state immigration system is what we need to provide the workers our society needs and to keep out those we dont need! More shocking revalations follow, do you say as a socialist party that the people should not engage in revolution, that the people have no right to rise and throw off their oppressors! That they should sit and wait for the outside to come and save them, ha, when has diplomatic pressure ever changed a dictatorship or capitalist goverment? |
| Date | 15:10:53, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Socialist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be sent to a vote so that we can decide how worthy this proposal is. |
| Date | 23:40:11, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | I second the motion. |
| Date | 11:35:34, August 30, 2005 CET | From | Alorian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Immigration |
| Message | Accepted, this has gone on too long and the problem has boiled down to ideology so I doubt we can gain more from this debate! |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 36 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 253 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 98 |
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