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Bill: Security Upgrade
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party of Telamon
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2044
Description[?]:
| In the world we live in today, with crime and terrorism, we need to increase security. Currently our police are carrying nothing but batons. If they were to confront a terrorist they would be powerless to stop them. So we need to re-introduce standard firearms in the police force. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The weapons used by police forces.
Old value:: Police officers may only carry non-lethal weapons.
Current: Police officers may only carry non-lethal weapons apart from specially trained firearms units.
Proposed: Police officers carry standard firearms.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | No, police should only carry non-lethal weapons, we can have armed response units, but it is not necessary for everyday police officers to carry fire arms - the British police work perfectly well without them so so can we |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Liberal Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | I dont get it, you are for the Death Penalty, but you are against torture because it is in humane, and now you believe having standard firearms is wrog. Mr Rooney please explain. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | My support of the death penalty in the Libertarian Party's bill was based on the compromise that he would support my Prisons bill and I would support his Fair Justice Bill. I am still skeptical of the death penalty, but can see an argument for the use of it solely in terrorism and treason cases where the crimes are so appalling. With regards to torture, it would be most likely to be used in questioning before a suspect is tried and convicted. Once tried and convicted then we can say that the terrorist has forfeited certain rights and should be punished and that the death penalty is an appropriate sentence in the fight against terrorism. Torture would be most likely to be used in questioning of suspects before they are charged, tried and convicted. Here, therefore the situation is different because normal human rights etc applies as the suspect must remain innocent until proven guilty and convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers. Finally, with regard to firearms, we feel that non lethal weapons are enough for ordinary police officers - we feel that in seeking to capture criminals, police should be incapacitating them (so that they can be caught) rather than killing or seriously injuring them. We feel that non lethal force is enough to be able to achieve this aim and hugely diminishes the possibility for accidents involving serious injury and death. We are not saying that there should not be armed response units to deal with cases, such as hostage situations where lethal force may in the end be justified after exhausting all other options, (with the police officers involved being specialists having undergone rigorous and appropriate training), but we feel that lethal weapons are not justified for all police on everyday routine beats - we feel that looking at examples of countries, this police system works well in the UK and so should work well in Telamon too. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | Can't say for other countries, but in AMerica there are huge numbers of instances in which suspects are killed or seriously injured unnecessarily by trigger happy police officers, who often were not provided with appropriate, rigorous or enough training. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | And as there are weapons available which make it possible to sucessfully incapacitate suspects using non lethal force, armed police do not seem necessary. We still have armed response units for those (few) instances where it is, but arming general police officers is not necessary. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | We still have gun rights, right? So it is not like the police can't arm themselves when they feel that they need it. The law you want to change only says that in standard situations the poolice should not attempt to kill the suspects, but to catch them. We in the cabinet feel that the job of the police is to secure evidence and suspects, not to blow it up. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Liberal Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | no, all patrol police are allways unarmed, they just dont go, ooh its a sunny duy, i'll take a gun. So you are obviously being fooled buy your sol cald "friend", i think u have some series thinking to do |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | No, as I said there will remain armed police units that can respond if needed. It is just the ordinary patrol officers who will not be armed |
| Date | 01:09:01, April 27, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | The SDP would just like to state for the record our support of this proposed bill. We ask our police force to risk their lives daily, we must give them proper tools with which to defend themselves. |
| Date | 14:34:52, April 27, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | Of course general gun rights apply to the police too, but we feel that they should have the best available means of protecting themselves. |
| Date | 17:48:03, April 27, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | Your evidence of alternatives is definitely intriguing. While I still have no opposition to a change in law providing police officers with regular guns, I can see too how it is not as pressing as one may think. |
| Date | 18:30:54, April 27, 2005 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | I do not think that Pistols should be standard on the police officer.
They should only carry it, when on patrol or when going somewhere dangerous.
Tazer guns can sometimes be more then enough. |
| Date | 01:25:20, April 28, 2005 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | You know what, scratch my earlier comment, it does not matter if they carry a pistol or not, as they are trained professionals.
I agree that they should be allowed firearms. |
| Date | 03:18:55, April 28, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | I plan to vote for this bill. Currently every citizen in Telamon can purchase a gun with no restrictions. This includes police officers, of course, but I do not belive that a police officer, who may feel safer on duty with a gun, should be required to purchase that gun him or herself. The government should provide police officers with standard issue firearms. This law does not force them to carry the guns, but gives them the option of having one without the expense. |
| Date | 06:47:47, April 28, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | SDC: Then what does the law say that forces them to carry?
The libertarians shall have to vote no, because we voted yes to the bill that brought about the current state of affairs. The reason for that actually is gone, but I don't want to make their votes selfcontradicting. |
| Date | 07:20:37, April 28, 2005 CET |
From | | To | Debating the Security Upgrade | | Message | TCP, OOC: I didn't even look at who proposed it. That is irrelevant. Haven't you yet noticed that I always make mistakes as to who proposed what bill? |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 21 |
| no | Total Seats: 62 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Before creating a party organisation, check to see whether there are any existing organisations which cover the same agenda. |
| Random quote: "Wherever you have an efficient government, you have a dictatorship." - Harry S. Truman
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