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Bill: Nuclear is not the Answer
Details
Submitted by[?]: Greens Party of Rutania
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2158
Description[?]:
| sub-title: A Bill to maximise the health and welfare of all citizens on the planet Prelude: Only those who have never experienced the awesome force of a nuclear weapon in a time of war could ever advocate their use in one and it’s only the most emotionally numb of individuals who do not see the nightmarish danger these weapons pose even in peacetime. Assuming: the government of Rutania wishes to pursue an international policy of peace, to oversee the welfare and social development of all citizens to their maximum potential and finds the concept of the complete obliteration of life on this planet nauseatingly abhorrent. Recognising: that nuclear weapons posses this capacity to obliterate ALL life on the planet Recognising: that nuclear war will end the ability of most citizens to socially fulfil themselves and will be a terminal detriment to their welfare Recognising: nuclear weapons only act as a deterrent to other nuclear powers. Under the current policy they will only be used in a retaliatory attack, making them useless against conventional attack and only provoking their instalment amongst our neighbours to guard against their suspicions of our intentions. Recognising: the inherently anti-democratic, anti-civilian and anti-life essence of nuclear weapons. All of which undermines the very foundations of our society and the virtues of the people of Rutania. Recognising: the desire of our international neighbours to see these weapons abolished Concluding: the ONLY way to guarantee no nuclear war is to abolish nuclear weapons Concluding: nuclear weapons are a serious economic drain on the military and national budget, are unproductive and highly inefficient weapons of war because of their one use alibility and massive destructive capacity. Concluding: no single nation has the right to obliterate all life on the planet or to even posses that capacity |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The policy with respect to nuclear weaponry.
Old value:: The nation reserves the right to develop, produce and store nuclear arms.
Current: The nation shall never produce or store nuclear weaponry for military purposes. Research and development of the technology is permitted.
Proposed: The nation shall never produce or store nuclear weaponry for military purposes. Research and development of the technology is permitted.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:57:55, August 31, 2005 CET | From |  RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | For. |
| Date | 13:45:42, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Against. We have enemies, most notably Beluzia that would love to wipe us out. We need a nuclear deterrant, we need these weapons. Getting rid of them is shortsighted and putting the lives of the Rutanian people at risk. At least 25 other countries possess these weapons and any one of those could attack us. |
| Date | 15:43:54, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Against. The nuclear deterrent must be maintained to protect Rutania and her subjects. |
| Date | 15:56:57, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Greens Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | OOC/IC: “Rutania and her subjects” somehow I suspect there would be few friends of the republic in the LIP. Disarming our nuclear weapons is anything but short sighted and to claim so simply points to the fact that that there are no serious or rational arguments behind your pro-nuclear stance. Is it really putting the lives of our citizens at risk by sparing them the horrors of a global nuclear holocaust? |
| Date | 17:56:20, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Civic Democratic Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Against. As stated by the Freedom Party currently 25 nations possess nuclear weaponry including our violent and agressive neighbors to the south Beluzia. If we disarm our nuclear arsenal then we are leaving ourselves wide open to attack by other nations since our deterrent is not there any longer. As long as the threat of war continues to linger of Rutania we will not support any destruction of our nuclear arsenal. |
| Date | 18:19:58, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Greens Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | If that is the stance of the CDP then when, pray tell, would we ever see nuclear weapons abolished? Disarming our weapons will prove a] that we believe in peace b] that we are not intimidated by government of Beluzia and c] that we are a mature and responsible enough government not to scared stupid into believing that nuclear weapons solve international problems. Here is another question to consider, why are there ONLY 25 nations with nukes? |
| Date | 18:48:42, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Do you not understand how crazy Beluzia is? They want to attack us all the time and have nuclear, biological and chemical weapons with the right to use them first! Nuclear weapons prevent wars between nuclear states, fact, as well as reducing the likelihood of wars between a nuclear state and a non one. |
| Date | 18:50:14, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | 25 out of 39 countries reserve the right to use and construct nuclear weapons. |
| Date | 19:03:32, August 31, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | And the number of nations that reserve the right to use them in a first strike is only 8. You, sir, are obviously fear-mongering. |
| Date | 19:03:59, August 31, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | And those 8 nations do not even include Beluzia! |
| Date | 19:27:01, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Greens Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | The fact is if Beluzia was intent on obliterating us what is stopping them? If they really are as pathological as you describe them then surely they would have undertaken such measures as to maximise their own survival in their planned attack on our nation and the recipricating force we would currently be prepared to send upon them. By getting rid of our nuclear wepons we will be saving ourselves from nuclear war and freeing up valuable funds to invest elsewhere in society or even back into the military. I doubt that Beluzia would be crazy enough to nuke us if we lacked bombs of our own and then send their own soldiers in to do what exactly? fly their proud flag over the radioactive rubble of our nation? I think not. Nuclear weapons are neither defensive or offensive becuase they leave nothing to be captured or occupied. |
| Date | 19:57:06, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1932&mforum=particracy http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1716&mforum=particracy |
| Date | 20:06:34, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Greens Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | That answer to ending war is not to be the first to fire the gun. And the point still stands, that they are yet to fire a single missile despite their apparent aggression. If they are serious about attacking us they will never use nuclear wepons becuase they will devistate both our nation leaving nothing to conquer, wipe out their own troops and directly or indirectly cause considerable damage to their own nation. |
| Date | 20:21:45, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | *sigh* No matter what i say, you refuse to listen to reason about nuclear weapons. |
| Date | 20:58:58, August 31, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | We do listen to "reason", but for us to listen to it, it must make sense. ;-) |
| Date | 21:01:05, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Oh but it does. |
| Date | 21:11:33, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | "That answer to ending war is not to be the first to fire the gun. And the point still stands, that they are yet to fire a single missile despite their apparent aggression. If they are serious about attacking us they will never use nuclear wepons becuase they will devistate both our nation leaving nothing to conquer, wipe out their own troops and directly or indirectly cause considerable damage to their own nation." 1) The problem is not as simple as that. The main problem is that they will blackmail us "GIve us $state or we'll fire our nuclear weapons at one of your cities." Would you really risk the people of that city in a stand off against a foreign power which cannot lose, even if it fires the missile? Of course not. We would be FORCED to hand over the state to foreign rule. Nuclear weapons ensure that they will not be used on us, because we would simply reply "You can do that if you want, but all it will do is destroy both of us." The enemy will have no choice but to stand down. You see, no one who fully udnerstands the problem or the nature of the world and diplomacy will ever support removing the nuclear deterrent. |
| Date | 22:53:05, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Radical Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | This proposal is consistent with our Platform. |
| Date | 23:33:41, August 31, 2005 CET | From | Civic Democratic Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | "If that is the stance of the CDP then when, pray tell, would we ever see nuclear weapons abolished? Disarming our weapons will prove a] that we believe in peace b] that we are not intimidated by government of Beluzia and c] that we are a mature and responsible enough government not to scared stupid into believing that nuclear weapons solve international problems. Here is another question to consider, why are there ONLY 25 nations with nukes?" Well let me answer your three points seperately. A) We have already shown the world that we believe in peace by instituting a no first strike policy. The Rutanian government has also shown its peaceful ways by never attacking another country or going to war with another country and having laws stating that we cannot attack another country unless we ourselves are attacked. Our firm stances against the Beluzian terrorists, and the Aldurian fascists also show that we are for the maintaining of peace and democracy through the use of strong diplomacy. These are the ways in which Rutania shows that it believes in peace. B) I believe that Beluzia would look upon any lack of a nuclear arsenal as a weakness from Rutania. It shows that they now have the techonological upper hand when it comes to such highly destructive weaponry. This would allow Beluzia to throw its might around much more than it would have otherwise and possibly begin to threaten the other states in Artania. We, the Civic Democrats, find that scenario deplorable and look towards continuing the policy of Beluzian containment until such a time as their government becomes more stable and more peaceful in there manner. C) I totally disagree with you on this point. Nuclear weapons do not solve any international incidents, what they do though is prevent those incidents from occuring. The Beluzians, for instance, will never try a full attack against Rutania while we have a nuclear arsenal because of the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. The same goes for the Republic of Alduria which was forced to back down due to intense international pressure and fear of a full scale war that may lead to the usage of WMDs. OOC: Just FYI buddy. Most of the people on here are from NationStates. All you have to do is go read an NS war that allows nuclear weapons to see how much they figure into the international relations in that game. I see no difference, in many people, between the way people view nukes on NS and the way people view nukes on Particracy. |
| Date | 12:38:43, September 01, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | 29 nations actually reserve the right to construct, store and develop nuclear weapons. I think there are 39/40 nations. |
| Date | 06:01:53, September 02, 2005 CET | From | Greens Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | "you don't do evil things just becuase someone else is going to do it - Helen Caldicott |
| Date | 12:28:41, September 02, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." - Ayn Rand "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles." - Ayn Rand "If men want to oppose war, it is *statism* that they must oppose" - Ayn Rand |
| Date | 14:57:34, September 02, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | ""you don't do evil things just becuase someone else is going to do it - Helen Caldicott" I dont think you quite understand the concept of the nuclear deterrent. |
| Date | 12:32:21, September 03, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | " 29 nations actually reserve the right to construct, store and develop nuclear weapons. I think there are 39/40 nations." You seem to overlook the fact that only 9 nations reserve the right to use them offensively. Please stop this fear-mongering. |
| Date | 10:28:56, September 04, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Nuclear is not the Answer |
| Message | Ah, so we can only be nuked 9 times rather than 29? What a relief! No, seriously, nuclear weapons take a long time to build, the arsenals of all 9 nations are dangerous and the first strike policy of the other 20 could change at any time. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 132 | ||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 422 | ||||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 45 |
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