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Bill: Securité sociale pour les Citoyens
Details
Submitted by[?]: Option Citoyenne
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2512
Description[?]:
| Parasitical private pension firms preying upon the passive people are abolished. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy regarding child benefit.
Old value:: The state guarantees child benefit to large families.
Current: The state guarantees child benefit to families classified as low-income or poor.
Proposed: The state guarantees child benefit to all families.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the pension system.
Old value:: The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.
Current: The state offers a voluntary public pension, combined with other voluntary private pensions.
Proposed: The state operates a compulsory, public pension system.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:46:35, January 05, 2008 CET | From |  Front Canrillaise | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | We can support article 2, but we feel that the current pension system is sufficient as it satisfies everyone. |
| Date | 19:40:22, January 05, 2008 CET | From | Parti Communiste de Rildanor | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | We support. |
| Date | 21:16:13, January 05, 2008 CET | From | Front Nationaliste Royaliste | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | Idiotic. |
| Date | 04:55:44, January 06, 2008 CET | From | Option Citoyenne | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | Skillfully argued, mon ami! |
| Date | 17:15:22, January 06, 2008 CET | From | Front Nationaliste Royaliste | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | We're going to be giving welfare to millionaires. Its idiotic. |
| Date | 21:24:29, January 06, 2008 CET | From | Option Citoyenne | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | Skillfully argued again! "Idiotic" really is a fine argument! Universality in social programmes is the principle here. No one is excluded. At the moment, the law gives welfare to millionaires, as long as they have large families. The law encourages people to breed for money, so it's a subsidy for fornication (I would think that's why the PSC is supporting us here). Universal social programmes are a well-established principle, preventing possible government abuse through means-testing (not that the present law actually favours the poor in any case.) |
| Date | 21:55:43, January 06, 2008 CET | From | Front Nationaliste Royaliste | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | The FNR opposes the current system of welfare distribution as well, but your proposed system is even more idiotic. Every family, regardless of need, will receive a cheque from the government. Shouldn't the policy be to save the welfare money for those who actually...need it. |
| Date | 22:49:08, January 06, 2008 CET | From | Option Citoyenne | To | Debating the Securité sociale pour les Citoyens |
| Message | Payments for everyone avoid the problem of a cut-off line. If only the poor get payments, it raises the issue of where to cut people off. Any line chosen will mean those living just above it are penalized relative to those just below it. A cut-off line would also require means testing. The country would be left with a situation where the lowest-income individuals are insured, the wealthiest can afford their own coverage, and those in the middle are squeezed out, with no insurance. The losers in such a system are working families. A fairer system pays out to all people, while raising the tax rate on the wealthiest people to cover the increased costs to the State of pensions and child benefit to poorer people. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 115 | |||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 188 | |||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Players using inactive accounts and/or accounts from outside nations may only propose bills and/or contribute to discussions, whether IC (in-character) or OOC (out-of-character) with the general consent of the players in the nation. |
| Random quote: "Don't listen to what the Communists say, but look at what they do." - Nguyen Van Thieu |