We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: Income tax proposal of July 2512
Details
Submitted by[?]: Saiserist League
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes to change income taxes. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2513
Description[?]:
| The Zardugal Revolutionary Socialist Party propose to adjust the government's income tax policy to better address the economic situation of the Free Federation of Zardugal. |
Proposals
Article 1
We propose to alter income tax brackets to the following setup. Information about the current income tax system can be found here.
| Bracket | Tax | Estimated Revenue |
| > 10,000 ZAR | 5% | 71,969,000,000 ZAR |
| > 40,000 ZAR | 9% | 48,366,000,000 ZAR |
| > 70,000 ZAR | 14% | 29,942,000,000 ZAR |
| > 100,000 ZAR | 20% | 37,020,000,000 ZAR | Total | 187,297,000,000 ZAR |
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 21:59:15, January 06, 2008 CET | From |  New Daio Party | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | Absolutely not. Raising taxes in this manner will shrink our budget long-term and make ongoing problems much worse. |
| Date | 02:03:41, January 07, 2008 CET | From | Saiserist League | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | Then how do you propose paying for the spending increases you demand? Typical libertarian thinking, wanting something for nothing. The government cannot pay for its people if it does not receive revenue, from the people, in the form of taxation. The current taxes are ridiculously low, and our proposed increases remain quite low, in the face of what we would want to increase them to in order to give the government sufficient revenues to provide for its people New Daio Party, what are your suggestions? All we've heard is a bunch of toothless criticisms. We hear rails against us for not increasing the Healthcare budget enough, despite a 90,000,000,000 ZAR increase, and at the same time you rail against the relatively modest tax increases necessary to pay for what you call an 'inadequate' increase. Do you have any idea how high taxes would have to go to pay for what you term an 'adequate' level of Healthcare? |
| Date | 04:16:38, January 07, 2008 CET | From | New Daio Party | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | Typical communist thinking, taxing business and taking money out of people's hands before they even get it. Are you aware that this proposal will drop the GDP approximately 12%? Take a look at the GDP. Close to 4 trillion. That figure drops, everything else drops. Sure, you'll get a bit of an increase in revenue, but not nearly the increase you're looking for. Your "modest' tax increase combined with your piss-poor budget will put us in the red along the lines of 30 Billion a year until the economy you stunted and are inflating the currency of wheezes us back to the black in about 20 years. Oh, and when we finally get there, we'll have a debt to pay off along the lines of about 600 Billion dollars. Oh, and we won't have any cops the whole time either. Go back to school, commie, you need more lessons in how money works. Think again before you drop the gauntlet. In this, you are simply outclassed. |
| Date | 07:03:54, January 07, 2008 CET | From | National Authoritarian Movement | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | All in all this tax is a little bit up to much to high in every bracket. |
| Date | 11:10:26, January 07, 2008 CET | From | Saiserist League | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | "Really hate to break it to you, New Daio Party, but Reagonomics doesn't work. You can't simply shout 'Milton Friedman' (we're aware you haven't actually mentioned him, but you're paralleling his theses and assuming you'll be accepted merely on weight of authority) and expect to be yielded the argument. Economic stimuli comes from the bottom up, not by the wealthy and not by corporations. Neither corporations nor the wealthy have any incentive to consume, so they don't consume. The middle-class in particular are the mass-consumers. So high-income taxes, luxury taxes, and corporate taxes are the most logical means of taxation, despite your failure to realize that. You claim that this proposal will drop the GDP by 12%. We challenge you to prove it. And don't simply say 'Milton Friedman' said so. We have had this argument ith libertarians so many times we are sick to the teeth over it. Now for some truth, these increases will scarcely dent the GDP, and we'll still run a surplus. The goal of taxation should be to shunt the burden from the lower and lower-middle class, which prop up society, purchase things, and actually stimulate the economy, onto the backs of the economically useless upper-middle and upper class. The trickle-down theory is complete BS, and everybody should have learned this by now. There is a trickle-up effect in any economy, market or non-market, where money moves from the lower classes to concentrate in the hands of the rich. It is the duty of the government to take this money out of their rotting hands, in the form of taxation, and put it into the hands of the poor and lower-middle, where it gets the economic ball rolling and ensures prosperity for all concerned. The keyword should be Fair Trade, not the tediously-quote misnomer Free Trade." -Trent Borisovich Kalinyev, Minister of Finance |
| Date | 19:34:53, January 07, 2008 CET | From | New Daio Party | To | Debating the Income tax proposal of July 2512 |
| Message | I swear, you just leave yourself wide open for this, doncha? *gets out her needle, and goes to popping bubbles* Leninomics doesn't work either. Things should neither trickle up or down, but move about freely. Sure! Be harder on the rich folks, no problems there, they've got more cash they can blow. But don't yank it out of their hands, make them want to spend. Then you tax when they spend. Don't yank cash outta anyone's hands before they can spend it, no matter how much they make. It is a direct principle of an income taxation increase that the government is essentially skimming off the top of the GDP. Taxing income is really akin to embezzlement from the economy; a nation stealing from itself. If you want my exact numbers, well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but given your obvious lack of understanding, they'd baffle you to the point that you'd just howl at me that they were lies anyhow. So I think I'll deal with the easier to beat "Ha, you can't prove it" with the simple rebuttal of "I can, but it's not my fault you can't understand it." Rich folks only don't spend their money when you keep taking it from them directly. It makes them resentful, making hordes, instead of investing it and spending it. A mix, a balance of socialism and capitalism just doesn't work. You're either best off taxing everyone 100% then making everyone directly in line money-wise, stature-wise and possessions-wise (i.e.: communism) or letting people do as they please while taxing their movement of goods (but not services), but not their lack thereof. This motivates the rich to become richer, and bring some poorer folks up with em. There's no 'trickle' effect. It's cyclical. Like economies are supposed to be. Oh. And who is this 'Milton Friedman' you keep bringing up? Sounds like he's got some nice but misguided theories. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 95 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 161 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 145 |
| Random fact: Players are expected to behave in a courteous, co-operative manner and make a reasonable effort to act with the consent of all players involved, even where the rules do not make consent strictly necessary. In particular, players have a responsibility to take reasonable care that other players are not misinformed either about the role-play or the Game Rules. |
| Random quote: "We make war that we may live in peace." - Aristotle, Nichomachean Ethics |