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Bill: Basic Standards of Living
Details
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2129
Description[?]:
| Guaranteeing every resident of Lodamun the dignity to have a reasonable standard of living. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Guarantee of minimum income.
Old value:: There shall be no direct cash payments to individuals to guarantee a minimum income.
Current: All adults not supported by another person shall be guaranteed a reasonable, though not high, standard of living by the government.
Proposed: All adults not supported by another person shall be guaranteed a reasonable, though not high, standard of living by the government.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:06:00, September 10, 2005 CET | From | Royal Conservative Party | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | There is absolutely no reason why taxpayers should have to supplement the lifestyles of low income/unemployed members of the community. |
| Date | 20:24:31, September 10, 2005 CET | From |  National People's Gang | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | What causes people to be unemployed or on low incomes? |
| Date | 23:31:38, September 10, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Failure to provide society with goods and services that are in demand. |
| Date | 23:51:36, September 10, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Therefore, they are not in control of their employment or their wages and so require support from other taxpayers. |
| Date | 00:01:17, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | They are in control. They provide something of value to others, in exchange others pay them. |
| Date | 01:07:06, September 11, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | They do not own the means of production, they are controlled at whim by those who do. |
| Date | 01:08:07, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Labor is a factor of production, they own their own labor. Simple as that. Those that produce need them. |
| Date | 03:04:55, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | If someone has no income, do we allow them to starve to death? |
| Date | 04:24:31, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Or do we steal from someone else to provide for them? There are private charities, which are far more effective at providing for the genuinely disadvantaged than tax-funded plans. |
| Date | 17:12:31, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Are we confident that private charities will catch every case? It's a very idealistic assumption. We're all for idealism, of course, but it has to be tempered with a realistic assessment of what works and what does not. |
| Date | 21:02:29, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | What works is those in need going to those willing to provide for them. What doesnt is red tape and Welfare queens. |
| Date | 19:14:50, September 13, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Hmm, there's a thought for the monarchy bill. |
| Date | 19:44:39, September 13, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | ;-) |
| Date | 01:40:24, October 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | OOC point: "Are we confident that private charities will catch every case? It's a very idealistic assumption. We're all for idealism, of course, but it has to be tempered with a realistic assessment of what works and what does not." I invite everyone to look into the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and tell me who was more effective in disaster relief and rescue, the Red Cross and other private charities, or FEMA and other government agencies. The government had more money, but the Red Cross still got there first and had a greater impact. |
| Date | 12:09:34, October 11, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | which was a national disgrace rather than something to shout about. Katrina and the aftermath is an on-going disaster. |
| Date | 18:39:09, October 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | The disgrace is the people's unfounded faith in an inefficient and ineffective government. |
| Date | 18:58:01, October 11, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | they should get a new one |
| Date | 19:04:20, October 11, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | ? |
| Date | 17:31:01, October 21, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | The fact that Bush's government is a travesty does not mean all government is a travesty. That's a logical fallacy. |
| Date | 20:15:44, October 21, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | "Inefficient and ineffective" applies to many more government's than the current US one. |
| Date | 23:56:23, October 21, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Oh, certainly true. The ooc point about the International Red Cross being more efficient than the US government is certainly true. The conclusion's what's in dispute. |
| Date | 01:20:36, October 22, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Basic Standards of Living |
| Message | Ah. I wasnt sure what exactly you were referring to. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 164 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 109 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 27 |
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| Random quote: "Wherever you have an efficient government, you have a dictatorship." - Harry S. Truman |