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Bill: CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Conservative Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2543
Description[?]:
| The Sekowo national adult age should be enforced as the age at which an individual is mature enough to choose whether to purchase or consume alcohol or tobacco. This law does not make illegal the consumption of alcohol or tobacco by a minor. These laws force parents to make the ethical choice on behalf of their children of whether or not to expose them to alcohol or tobacco consumption until the child becomes an adult and can choose for themselves. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards alcoholic beverages.
Old value:: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, but consumed by anyone.
Current: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased and consumed anywhere, but only by adults.
Proposed: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, and can only be available to adults.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Sale of tobacco products.
Old value:: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco products but everyone is allowed to buy them.
Current: Only adults may purchase tobacco.
Proposed: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:43:02, March 05, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | We are against. |
| Date | 02:31:41, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | We support. |
| Date | 02:47:39, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Independence Coalition | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | We oppose, people must make their own decisions, the government should not. dictate what the citizenry can and can not do to their own bodies. |
| Date | 03:57:10, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | IC, "people" is a vague term. This bill is specifically targeted at protecting youths. The CP finds it unsettling that a 10 year old is allowed to buy cigarettes and a bottle of vodka for himself. |
| Date | 04:17:45, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | Or even a 6 year old. |
| Date | 05:10:37, March 05, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | It's not the governments business to tell people what to do. Besides how many 10 yea rolds let alone 6 year olds buy anything by themselves anyways. OOC: On a side note laws like this are my definition of a nanny-state. |
| Date | 06:22:07, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | Then could the DSP please inform the people why it feels it is not necessary to prevent a child from purchasing cigarettes, but it is correct for the government to increase mandatory school length? DSP, the law for age of adult is up to the age of 17. Perhaps the DSP may confine their children to their homes however the majority of older youths walk home from school unattended, for example. That is telling people what to do. Therefore, the DSP's argument has zero foundation. OOC: First off, that's two of many laws. Doesn't classify a nation as a nanny-state over two laws. But if you want, you can be called nanny-state. It can be called protectionism. It can be called common sense. Somehow, you have to have legal jurisdiction to prosecute a moron who would sell a one-purpose harmful product to children who don't know better. Unless you do that, Iori, in which case I am sorry for calling you a moron. =D |
| Date | 07:11:28, March 05, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | People are allowed to do anything (social freedoms) so long as they don't directly and/or consensually intefer with the freedoms of others, however being stupid is not a right. OOC: Heh, I guess I'm a true Virginian, holding multiple conflicting opinions at the same time. Also, my defintion of a nanny state is interfereing with social freedoms for the most part, of course things like public duels and cannabilism are some fo the few I don't support. Also, I meant laws like those are my definition of nanny-state laws, I did'nt mean that those two laws alone mean somewhere is one. |
| Date | 09:14:48, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | I used to know plenty of 10-year old that would get a fairly large allowance. And plenty more that would raid their mother's purses for money. |
| Date | 09:15:26, March 05, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | [[...that should have been OOC...]] |
| Date | 00:46:47, March 06, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | OOC: How many of them went to a store by themselves though? In the US different states have different laws on selling alcohol, for instance in my state beer and light alcohol can be sold at grocery stores, gas stations and small market stores. Wine and some hard liquor can be sold at grocery stores and liquor stores and most other hard liquor and spirits are only allowed to be sold at the state controlled liquor stores. Now unless a 10 year old lives right next to a store that sells it (not all stores would), and is intelligent enough to know what they want (in which case they should be able to for being smart), there really is'nt a chance that one would buy them. Plus very few people would actually sell it to them anyhow. |
| Date | 04:32:08, March 06, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | If the kids shouldn't be drinking or smoking, its the parents' responsibility not the state's. |
| Date | 07:31:21, March 06, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | It's the state's responsibility to reserve that right for the parents, and not to encourage shopkeepers to exploit children where possible. |
| Date | 07:51:07, March 06, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | The state's responsibility is to ensure that the alcohol is safe to consume, and in some cases to oversee the production and location fo speciific alcohol sales, nothing else. |
| Date | 23:53:30, March 06, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | "It's the state's responsibility to reserve that right for the parents, and not to encourage shopkeepers to exploit children where possible." And what is preventing the parents from grounding the kids for smoking and drinking. Surely you arn't so paranoid you think every household has a DSP rep to stop them x.x |
| Date | 06:34:38, March 07, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | Haha, that would make for some humurous 'reality television' if nothing else. |
| Date | 07:06:27, March 07, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | How will the parent know, if the parent was not there when the alcohol or cigarettes (or other, more serious drugs) are purchased? If a parent doesn't want their kid smoking at age 12, it's not exactly like that kid is likely to smoke in front of their parents. |
| Date | 07:10:35, March 07, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | Why does the parent need to know, it is quite frankly none of their business. All people, regardless of age have the same rights and freedoms. |
| Date | 07:25:39, March 07, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | ... There is a point where an individual is too nave and immature to be able to make healthy decisions for themselves. Have you, sir, ever read Lord of the Flies? That is what happens when children are left to govern themselves. |
| Date | 07:33:04, March 07, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | And we again bring up the point, how many children are actually going to purchase this, add in the aforementioned factor that many (not all) vendors simply would not sell on ethical/moral grounds, regardless of profit. It is in our opinion that if say a 12 year old is smart enough to have the money to buy it and actually goes and buys it then they know what they are doing, and if the vendor does'nt want to sell it to them, well for younger children we don't really have a problem with it. |
| Date | 17:56:55, March 07, 2008 CET | From | Free Democratic Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | We see no reason why young people should be disallowed by the law from buying cigarettes or alcohol. Now, as long as retailers and individuals retain the right to refuse to sell them these goods without the threat of being sued. (Stores should be able to not sell things to certian people at their discretion, like i might sell my car to a friend but not to some stranger). If this is the case, then I support the current laws we have in place. |
| Date | 22:59:57, March 07, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the CP.0053.2541 Alcohol and Smoke Purchasing Bill |
| Message | If the parent can't keep track of their kid its their own fault. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 158 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 379 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 63 |
| Random fact: When forming a cabinet, try to include as few parties as possible, while still obtaining a majority of the seats. |
| Random quote: "If liberty and equality, as is thought by some are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost." - Aristotle |