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Bill: Anti-Terrorist Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Sedliacke Povstanie
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2112
Description[?]:
| My fellow Deltarians. As you may have noticed, our close neighbours are amassing against us. Whilst this bill would thankfully be unnecessary if we faced honourable adversaries, I believe it needs to be considered due to the hatefilled extremist beliefs of the type of enemies we face, and in light of their past history of commiting acts of terrorism and mass atrocities against defenceless civilians. - We need to set limitations to prevent the distribution of anti-Deltarian pro-jihad literature amongst our ethnic Quanzarites and Al'Badarans. - Also, due to the radical leanings of some extremist clerics, the TP feel it is necessary to excersize some control over appointment of religious figureheads, to stem the flow of hatemongering fanaticism and the recruitment of suicide bombers. - In the event of a terrorist being captured in the midst of a bomb attack being carried out, we need to allow harsher interrogative techniques to be used, although sparingly, and only in grave situations like the one described. Remember ; our enemies nations have access to nuclear weapons. - In the event of such a weapon being deployed in a populated area, our military need to be ready to back up our police force. Provisions have to be made for the future of our children, and to send the enemies of Deltaria a message ; we are ready for you! |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy on advertising
Old value:: All advertising is permitted.
Current: Only advertising that meets certain set standards is permitted.
Proposed: Only advertising that meets certain set standards is permitted.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The nation's policy on the separation of the police and the military.
Old value:: A civilian police force is in place and the military is not allowed to play any part in it.
Current: A civilian police force is in place and the military may be called in to help in serious emergencies.
Proposed: A civilian police force is in place and the military may be called in to help in serious emergencies.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state nominates ministers of religion, but the appointment is left up to the religious communities themselves.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The use of torture for obtaining information.
Old value:: Torture is never allowed.
Current: Torture is never allowed.
Proposed: Suspects can only be tortured under grave emergencies where the information is vital.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:50:37, September 11, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | I'll support this, but what will the stance on military/civilian police seperation be? The military acts as a de-facto police force, with powers of arrest. A civilian police force is in place, backed up by the military. A civilian police force is in place and the military may be called in to help in serious emergencies. |
| Date | 20:04:58, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Sedliacke Povstanie | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Serious emergencies when they're needed. Proposal added. |
| Date | 20:33:58, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Doron Akigansk Kommunist Parti (MLN) | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | The Communist Party is against Article 4. Remove it, and we will support this bill. |
| Date | 20:45:09, September 11, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | You'd allow your cities to burn in nuclear fire rather than accept the harsh realities of the times we now live in? |
| Date | 21:18:11, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Sedliacke Povstanie | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | What exactly does the Communist Party don't like about Article 4? |
| Date | 22:31:55, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Utilolibertarian Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Articles 1, 3, and 4 are unacceptable to the UP. If we lose our freedom as we win the battle against our neighbors, what is the point? We have still lost our freedom. |
| Date | 22:51:18, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Doron Akigansk Kommunist Parti (MLN) | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Torture is far too much power to be granted to a conservative van-guard like that of the military. Especially since it's proven to be an ineffective tool in gathering information. |
| Date | 22:52:57, September 11, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Ineffective? Cite sources. EVERYBODY talks. |
| Date | 23:56:23, September 11, 2005 CET | From | Doron Akigansk Kommunist Parti (MLN) | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Everybody talks, and says exactly they think wants to be heard. This is why American intelligence is so lousy. Do you think the CIA has had so many debaucles do solely to the incompetence of it's agents? |
| Date | 00:02:21, September 12, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | At first, but in the end, everybody tells the truth. Interrogators are trained psychiatrists, and can usually tell when somebodies lying. We're an advanced country, we have access to polygraph machines, and sodium pentathol. While neither are foolproof, it's a fair deal better than nothing. Remember, the interrogation article will only be employed in grave emergencies, such as impending terrorist attacks. Would you prefer to get no answer from the captured terrorist as to the bombs location, or an answer that's probably true, but might not be? If it turns out he was lying, we've still done the best we could. |
| Date | 00:05:42, September 12, 2005 CET | From | Utilolibertarian Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Even if article 4 is somewhat acceptable, articles 1 and 3 remain not only unnecessary but dangerous. Do you really think our enemies will use billboards to attack us? And if a Muslim cleric is bad, then we can deport him (like what the Brits are doing now) but appointing these ministers in the first place is bad news. |
| Date | 00:19:08, September 12, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Subversize pamphlets and literature, if we set some regulations on what is considered acceptable we can prosecute those who preach hate and terrorism within our borders. And I don't think there are any legeslature options that will allow us to deport anyone with Deltarian citizenship. |
| Date | 02:28:05, September 12, 2005 CET | From | Doron Akigansk Kommunist Parti (MLN) | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Except the physical stress of "interrogation" usually leads to highly misleading polygraph charts. Torture is an aspect of only the most barbaric nations, do I need to point you towards the unruly behavior of Quanzarite security forces? We must fight the enemy, not become them. |
| Date | 06:42:59, September 12, 2005 CET | From | Utilolibertarian Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | As strange as it sounds, I believe the Communists make good points about torture. Regarding advertising, then regulate political literature, but don't regulate advertisements. I've yet to see an Islamic tobacco billboard telling citizens to revolt against the government, for example. |
| Date | 13:03:23, September 12, 2005 CET | From | Doron Akigansk Kommunist Parti (MLN) | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Political literature should remain untouched. This is a democracy, not Quanzar. Advertisements can be regulated, that will also decrease big business bullying of small businesses and the like. |
| Date | 13:46:51, September 12, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Highly misleading information from torture is better than none at all, provided we acknoweledge the fact that the information isn't neccessarily true. In the situations described, we must at least do everything within our power to stop the viscious Quanzarite jihad. |
| Date | 14:55:48, September 12, 2005 CET | From | Marchioness Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | The MP feels that it would be unjust to support articles 1, 3 and 4. Although the MP is a secular party, it believes that the state has no right to interfere with religion. Likewise the state should not practice censorship. |
| Date | 15:54:52, September 12, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Are we to assume the MP supports the appointment of radical pro-terrorism clerics, then? |
| Date | 15:56:47, September 13, 2005 CET | From | Marchioness Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | Regardless of the radical views that are held by a small number of ministers of religion, the MP feels that this law is draconian - any benefits are outweighed by the deficits. |
| Date | 19:57:44, September 13, 2005 CET | From | National Socialist Party of Deltaria | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | What would the MP accept, in compromise? |
| Date | 21:18:24, September 13, 2005 CET | From | Sedliacke Povstanie | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | We're convinced torture would be useful in emergency cases and of course it requires scrict regulation and professionality. It shall not become a common practise. We suggested it especially after recognising the dangers our neighbours may bring. We're in favour of being able to veto religious ministers due to similar reasons as the NSP stated and out of fear of suicide bombers or possible threats or cooperation with the neighbouring Muslim countries. If the MP is still against this article, the TP would like to know if the MP would support the option that the government nominates the ministers of religion but the religious communities themselves appoint them in the end? Which we recognise would be more democratic but we still prefer the old option. |
| Date | 05:55:50, September 14, 2005 CET | From | CNI Party | To | Debating the Anti-Terrorist Act |
| Message | The CNI firmly believes that using barbaric, inhuman methods is the only way to defeat a barbaric, inhuman enemy and supports this bill. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 30 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 70 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Players have a responsibility to differentiate between OOC (out-of-character) and IC (in-character) behaviour, and to make clear when they are communicating in OOC or IC terms. Since Particracy is a role-playing game, IC excesses are generally fine, but OOC attacks are not. However, players must not presume this convention permits them to harass a player with IC remarks that have a clear OOC context. |
| Random quote: "Laundry is the only thing that should be separated by color." - Author Unknown |