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Bill: Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union
Details
Submitted by[?]: Rutanian Democratic Forum
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2553
Description[?]:
| In the last election, Rutanian Nationalist Union had the candidate for President named "Horst Wessel". For you who don't know, Horst Wessel was a nazi activist and also a nazistic hero in Nazi- Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel Therefore we request an explanation for this from RNU, because we strongly oppose every kind of nazism and fascism politics, and also to promotion of such kind of ideology. We also request that all parties refrain from cooperation with RNU until explanation and settling out things. We also demand that all such promotion of nazism and fascism ideology be banned in the Commonwealth of Rutania. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:22:56, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Federal Rutanian Libertarian Union | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | Although the LPR is opposed to Nazism and all kinds of Fascism, we do not believe in forcing any person or party into explaining any of their situations or opinions under duress. Thus, we abstain from voting - and will wait out to see how Parliament acts. |
| Date | 17:39:42, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Nationalist Union | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | While I do not feel that I need to justify myself to you, I shall explain nonetheless. The RNU is, surprise surprise, a nationalist party. As such we admire people who take a stand for their nation, people such as Horst Wesel. This does NOT, however, mean that we endorse all of the ideals of Nazism. Specifically, the extreme anti-semitism, homophobia, and sexism displayed by the Nazis are quite abhorrent to the RNU. |
| Date | 19:29:01, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Democratic Forum | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | There are many more positive cases of nationalism and people standing for their nation. If we talk about Germany, we could propose rather, for example, Sophie Scholl, or other german heroes who stand for their nation but not under the flag of nazism. Also we have to point out that nazistic ideology is not a ideology of a nation (therefore it is NOT nationalism and nationalistic ideology), it is based on _race_. So, you are wrong a little bit in your view that you're promoting "nationalism" by admiring a Nazi. Also, all this "ideals" which you mentioned you do not support cannot be separated from the nazistic ideology, they are inseparable. You cannot endorse a Nazi hero and then claim that "you do not support Nazism". Sorry, these two things don't come together. We would recommend the coleagues in RNU to read more carefully about Nazism and their consequences and casualties. Again, such promotion of Nazism ideology, in any way, considering more what is said above, is not tolerated by the Rutanian Democratic Forum. We call again all parties to refrain from cooperation with the RNU, until it stops endorsing Nazi heroes. |
| Date | 19:53:14, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Nationalist Union | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | I can claim that I "endorse" (a more accurate description would be admire to a degree) and say that I do not support Nazism. Why? BECAUSE I SAY THAT I DON'T SUPPORT NAZISM! Do the those who currently admire Oliver Cromwell (such as some Protestants in Northern Ireland) support a ban on dancing? By your logic, they do, becuse they admire someone who did just that. I would also remind you that Horst Wessel was killed eight years before Kristallnacht and twelve years before the Wannsee Conference, so saying that an admiration of the man is an endorsement of these actions is foolish. As long as you are undertaking this crusade, you may as well start a similar bill for the Socialist Party of Rutania, decrying it for endorsing the crimes of the USSR, PRC, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, the Khmer Rouge, etc. |
| Date | 20:40:17, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Democratic Forum | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | I will remind you that "Horst- Wessel- Lied" was practically unofficial anthem during Nazi Germany. Therefore, endorsing Horst Wessel is a kind of endorsing Nazism. Try to "endorse" Horst Wessel while staying in Germany..and see what happens. And, If you do not endorse such an ideology, then why don't you change your candidate for President? |
| Date | 21:13:34, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Nationalist Union | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | The "Horst-Wessel-Lied" actually was part of the national anthem in Nazi Germany. They had a kind of double anthem in which "Das Deutschlandlied" (you might know it better as "Deutschland über alles") was played followed by the "Horst-Wessel-Lied", but I digress. If it honestly means that much to you, I will change my candidate for President to something more...kosher. |
| Date | 21:19:04, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Democratic Forum | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | Well, we in RDF don't agree with this, but maybe others do. We proposed what we proposed, but if the Parliament votes that you can keep that candidate, we will obey :) Or, if you want to change your candidate as a good will, we have nothing against that :) |
| Date | 21:21:04, March 28, 2008 CET | From | Rutanian Nationalist Union | To | Debating the Against Nazism and Fascism- Request for Explanation from the Rutanian Nationalistic Union |
| Message | I don't really care, to be honest, I just changed my Presidential candidate anyway. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 155 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 308 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 136 |
| Random fact: Periodically, it is a good idea to go through your nation's Treaties and arrange to withdraw from any that are unwanted. |
| Random quote: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church." - Thomas Paine |