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Bill: CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Conservative Liberal Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2114
Description[?]:
| Currently our Armed Forces have become the laughing stock of the world, with homosexual soldiers openly flaunting themselves, and women causing havoc in front line units. We propose that the Armed Forces have their morale restored and combat effectiveness increased by the following, 1) Introducing a Don't ask, Don't tell policy regarding homosexuals 2) Allowing the Armed Forces control over their own recruitment policies 3) Keeping women out of front line positions. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Military stance on homosexuality.
Old value:: Homosexuality is allowed in the military.
Current: Homosexuality is allowed in the military.
Proposed: Open homosexuality is not tolerated in the military. The military has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Discrimination in the military on grounds of race/religion.
Old value:: Any adult citizen can serve in the military, discrimination for racial or religious reasons is prohibited.
Current: Any adult citizen can serve in the military, discrimination for racial or religious reasons is prohibited.
Proposed: The government does not interfere with the military over who can serve in it.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Women in the military.
Old value:: Women serve alongside men.
Current: Women serve alongside men.
Proposed: Women can only serve in non-battle positions.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:36:36, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Conservative Liberal Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | Comments. |
| Date | 17:59:11, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | The AAP finds all three articles detestable, and will actively oppose any and all attempts to push such injustice through the Likatonian chambers. |
| Date | 00:15:51, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Party for Equality | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | No. Discriminating against soldiers, physically capable in all other respects, because of their sexuality is equally unfair as discriminating because of their sex, which is also totally without foundation. The only possible justification for the banning of homosexuals and women is the distraction it causes. But if the distraction of fighting alongside some people mildly different from themselves is too much for our men, then they don't deserve to be fighting in our name. other than this, there is no justification whatsoever for the first and last policies. The second is also promoting inequality of the worst kind - left to themselves the recruiting officers will undoubtedly act on whatever prejudices they hold, whether this be by denying acess to certain racial or religious groups, or by discriminating positively in favour of such groups. The only criteria on which soldiers should be selected is physical and mental suitability for the job. |
| Date | 01:00:18, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | The AAP entirely agrees with the wise words of the LPE representative. |
| Date | 09:35:22, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Conservative Liberal Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | All Article One means is that recruits won't be asked their sexuality, whats wrong with that? Article 3 is right in our opinion because we do not believe that the fairer sex should fight in the front line. |
| Date | 13:12:17, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | Article 1: Wrong because it implies there IS a problem with being homosexual. Armies have historically ENCOURAGED homosexual relationships within same-sex units, because of the advantages of having soldiers that care about each other. It is a nonsense to establish a prejudice against homosexuality. And "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", because it keeps the homosexual safe if he/she does NOT tell, AUTOMATICALLY means that there is some prejudicial action if he/she DOES tell. Article 2: Wrong because it allows the individual selector the power to decide who he/she wishes to recruit. So - if you have one selector who dislikes one colour of skin, he/she can choose to not employ persons that match that description. Article 3: Wrong because women who CAN and WISH TO live up to the rigours of front-line combat, have established themselves as the equal of their male counterparts. Why should they, then, be forbidden to act as counterparts, for no other reason than to suit 'old guard' political ideals? |
| Date | 13:25:21, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Conservative Liberal Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | "Article 1: Wrong because it implies there IS a problem with being homosexual. Armies have historically ENCOURAGED homosexual relationships within same-sex units, because of the advantages of having soldiers that care about each other. It is a nonsense to establish a prejudice against homosexuality. And "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", because it keeps the homosexual safe if he/she does NOT tell, AUTOMATICALLY means that there is some prejudicial action if he/she DOES tell." What are you on about. Armies have not historically encouraged homosexual relations, it was only legalised in the armed forces a few years back, what are you on about? |
| Date | 13:28:35, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | The AAP wishes to point out that the Likatonian army only de-criminalised recently, but there have been many other armies in history. OOC: Classical armies (Greek) for example, encouraged same-sex relationships between soldiers, in order to create a situation where soldiers would fight and die for each-other. |
| Date | 13:32:55, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Conservative Liberal Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | OOC: Yes classical Greek, 2,400 years ago. Pretty much ever since it has not been encouraged and has been a punishable crime within the ranks of the armed forces. We feel a Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy is a more realistic policy as it follows the wishes of the Armed Forces. We will never be comfortable with the use of woman in front line positions as we feel that the pressures of these jobs mean that it is best for men only to serve in the front line. |
| Date | 16:46:09, September 19, 2005 CET | From | AM Radical Libertarian Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | We of teh RLP must oppose this bill. Articles 1 and 3 are too similart to the arguments used to restrict racial integration within the military, many years ago. Article 2 seems almost an oxymoron, because the military is part of the government, so it seems to say that one hand should not know what the other is doing. |
| Date | 22:42:22, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | Response to the CPL: OOC - actually, the sexuality thing is fairly recent. Common law marriages allowed gay marriage until just a few centuries ago. Our modern 'victorian' values are not truly those of our forefathers. The Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy ONLY follows the will of the Armed Forces, if that IS the will of the Armed Forces. We see no complaint in our current military about the current policy. Regarding the women in battle thing... 'pressures of the job'? But women handle stress BETTER than men... |
| Date | 18:11:13, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Conservative Liberal Party | To | Debating the CPL Armed Forces Reform Bill |
| Message | Anyhoo, to vote, we have outlined our views, we realize they are gonna be trasged : ), but hey, thats democracy, we're not complaining, yet. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 98 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 177 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Role-play is most enjoyable and successful when there is good communication and friendly relations between all players involved. |
| Random quote: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud |