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Bill: Criminal Termination Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Progressive Conservative Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2114
Description[?]:
| The crimes cited below have little success with reform attepmts. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy with respect to the death penalty.
Old value:: The death penalty is illegal and is never to be applied.
Current: The death penalty is illegal and is never to be applied.
Proposed: The death penalty is not applied, except for terrorism, treason and crimes against mankind.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 02:45:50, September 19, 2005 CET | From |  Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | The KPP is against killing of all kinds *especially* government-sponsored killing. Just because a man commits a heinous act such as those above...it does not give *you* the right to kill him. Besides if all you want is revenge, I think life solitary confinement is a worse punishment for the criminal than going to sleep with a needle in his arm. "The crimes cited below have little success with reform attepmts." - So we might as well kill them now? |
| Date | 03:27:49, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Populist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | We support the death penalty in these cases, always have, and always will. We do not believe in humanity to those whose crimes are inhuman. |
| Date | 04:13:14, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Right, because as soon as you commit terrorism or treason your genetics change from human to some sort of mutant. Thus you are rendered "inhuman" and a free target for anyone to kill. It is highly documented along with flat earth theory and intelligent design. Notice the sarcasm. |
| Date | 04:30:50, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Populist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | We think that once you commit such a crime you have proven yourself not to be worthy of humanity. Your genes don't mutate, but it proves you are not a person in any way other than biologically. We also want to deter such crimes, and while the death penalty is not a proven deterrent to common criminals, we certainly think it would often be a deterrent to a potential treasonist. It may not be a deterrent to a terrorist depending on the terrorist's religious beliefs, but if it deters one act of treason or terrorism, it is worth killing all treasonists and terrorists. |
| Date | 05:01:59, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Call me crazy, but spending the rest of my life in solitary confinement is one of the many, many reasons I have not commited treason so far in my life. But if you told me that instead of solitary confinement I would have a needle placed in my arm and I'd gently fall asleep instead, it would only be a plus for treason. Do you get how this works? I can tell you want to punish these people for their crimes, but I think you're taking the wrong road. It is much more punishing to be in prison the rest of your life without chance for parole than it is to be put to sleep within a few years. There are actually prisoners who request their executions to be done earlier because they find it preferable to prison. (Time magazine did a story about it) Obviously your intentions are clear but your methods are flawed. Let's not forget that you can flaunt their "inhumanity" just as much by keeping them locked in cages as you can by killing them. (And killing people is a lot worse than holding against their will..I think we can all agree on that) |
| Date | 05:37:53, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Populist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | We find your reasoning flawed in this area. It's supposed to be more tolerable to hold people against their will than to kill them against their will, but you argue that killing them is actually what they'd prefer. If they prefer to be killed, that may well be an argument against the death penalty as deterrent, but it is also an argument for the death penalty's not being inhumane treatment at all. And actually, under Kajoran law, with the legal voluntary euthanasia that we strongly agree with, a prisoner sentenced to life who preferred to die could already do so. Meanwhile, some people, notably the most rotten ones, manage to thrive reasonably well in prison and somewhat enjoy their lives while there. We wish to make sure that no treasonist or terrorist ever enjoys anything. |
| Date | 13:47:14, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | It's supposed to be more tolerable to hold people against their will than to kill them against their will, but you argue that killing them is actually what they'd prefer. "If they prefer to be killed, that may well be an argument against the death penalty as deterrent, but it is also an argument for the death penalty's not being inhumane treatment at all." - The death penalty isn't a deterrent because no one considers it before they kill people. And I guess my add-on about the convicts seeking penalty was misleading. Many/more spend rest of their lives in appeals court trying to bump it down life in prison. "Meanwhile, some people, notably the most rotten ones, manage to thrive reasonably well in prison and somewhat enjoy their lives while there. We wish to make sure that no treasonist or terrorist ever enjoys anything." - The above two comments are exactly why I propose *solitary confinement*, *life sentance*, *without parole*. They have very limited connections to the outside world if any, no way to thrive in prison, and basically no way to enjoy their stay in prison either. This would keep them from enjoying it at all as you wish. |
| Date | 13:51:54, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Again Please ignore the top line of the above comment, it is from PLP's argument. And in the middle paragraph, when I say convicts seek life imprisonment, it means they're seeking the easy-going version not the one I describe in the paragraph below it. The one I propose would not be to their liking. |
| Date | 14:42:36, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Secular Humanist Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | We will never support state-committed murders. the possibility of errors during the trials, and the event of a wrong sentence are gruesome and could change the attitude of the population towards the state. The government never seeks vendetta (do you use this word in English?), but acts to protect its citizens, even the criminals. |
| Date | 21:11:39, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Populist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | The KPP makes the best case against the death penalty we have heard, by offering solitary confinement as an alternative. If there were a solitary confinement option that would be recognized by the game engine, we would be willing to strongly consider that alternative. However, the game engine will take it that they are treated like any other prisoner. And Jack the treasonist or Osama the terrorist deserve a worse fate than Fred who robbed a liquor store or even Joe who killed the guy with whom his wife was cheating on him. This isn't excusing Fred or Joe, just saying that the level of evil is qualitatively different. |
| Date | 01:11:51, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | The prison part of the game is in role-play land. It is whatever our law says it is. Therefore if prisoners are currently kept in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives, then that is what's going on in Kanjor's prisons. Unless of course someone wants to put it into a bill and propose it as law. Then it would be 2-dimensional (official in the game and in our minds). Trust me PLP, I'm making perfect sense for crazy role-playing person. |
| Date | 04:30:57, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Progressive Conservative Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Waste money on worthless beings? I think not. We will move this to vote to clairify our position for the populace. |
| Date | 04:44:17, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran People's Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Ever checked your facts PCP? Putting someone to death costs more than life imprisonment. |
| Date | 07:04:35, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Progressive Conservative Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Even with only a bullet? |
| Date | 07:27:49, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Populist Liberal Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | He's talking about the endless appeals process, which we need not allow in Kanjor. In theory, appeals after a death sentence should be no more, and thus no more costly, than appeals after a life sentence. But they are not, because defense lawyers try to draw it out to delay the execution as long as possible. While we believe that certain precautions need to be taken-- was going to say in death penalty cases, but really in all cases-- to make sure the person is actually guilty, including a DNA test on demand and, in death penalty cases, one additional review by a neutral panel of judges to remove the death sentence if there is any doubt as to guilt, the delaying tactics should be outlawed. Basically, every appealable issue should have to be brought up at once-- standard practice for non-death-penalty cases (as the lawyer then isn't trying to delay but rather to free the client as soon as possible). If that were done, it would be less costly to execute than to lock up for life. |
| Date | 17:42:19, September 20, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Freedom Party | To | Debating the Criminal Termination Bill |
| Message | Good to see that we're moving to the right - welcome all new parties. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 252 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 188 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Party organizations are eligible for deletion if they are over 50 in-game years old, do not have at least 1 active member or are historically significant and possess historically significant information. |
| Random quote: "Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary." - Mahatma Gandhi |