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Bill: Right-wing cowardice
Details
Submitted by[?]: Revolucia Partio de Koburo
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 2575
Description[?]:
| Hey righties! You have no argument against this. It is simply a fact that having private education and health care harms the public system, giving the vast majority of people a poorer service. This can have disastrous impacts on society, as evidenced by certain nations. I'm sorry, it's just the truth. Can't hate the truth now can you? Seriously, I've looked into this, studied it, and drawn my own conclusions - that private health care and education are harmful, as a whole. Suck it up. The only thing you do to support your view is mumble something about choosing not to go to the same hospital or school as the 'inferior classes'. Snobs. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Health care policy.
Old value:: There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care.
Current: There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care.
Proposed: Health care is entirely public and free; private clinics are banned.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The education system.
Old value:: There is a free public education system alongside private schools.
Current: There is a free public education system and a small number of private schools, which are heavily regulated to ensure they teach adequate skills and information.
Proposed: Education is entirely public and free; private schools are banned.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 00:32:56, May 11, 2008 CET | From |   Nacia Repuvlican partio de Kobura | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | Lets see Heads or Tails ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: It comes up heads you lose |
| Date | 01:12:18, May 11, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | RP proves my point... |
| Date | 12:21:18, May 11, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | we can debate privatisation if you want.... The benifits are many.... for one you dont have one large organisation running hundreds or even thousands of hospitals.... So decision making is much more efficient and much more local... So it means hospitals are more responsive to the needs of the people in its area. So that means better and quicker decision making. It also means actually cost savings because you do not need to employ thousands of managers or bureucrats to keep the system going. and i dismiss the argument that people get treated badly... Because if one private hospital would treat someone badly they would lose all their patients meaning they would have no patients and would close down. Private hospitals are cleaner and better... I completely accept that there would be a segment that would not be able to afford going private so we would continue to have a state system or a vouchers system where patients who could not afford treatment would be subsidised for. If we still had a state system the argument of a two tier system can be made.... But to ensure this does not happen you would ensure that funding would not be cut...In a sense if more people were to opt out of the state system it would in fact help alieviate the pressures on the state system and if funding is kept at a reasonable level we could increase state health standards and put even greater pressure on private hospitals to increase their standards to attract patients. |
| Date | 00:39:28, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | "So decision making is much more efficient" Yes. They treat patients who cost them the least. Really efficient. Not. "It also means actually cost savings because you do not need to employ thousands of managers or bureucrats to keep the system going." Cost savings for who? Exactly. "and i dismiss the argument that people get treated badly" Its a fact. Maybe if you spent more than a couple of minutes looking into the subject you'd understand that? I can't be arsed deciphering the rest of that huge block of rambling, incoherent nonsense. |
| Date | 00:39:40, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | Paragraphs, nigga, paragraphs. |
| Date | 01:10:52, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | well that is because i have made some good points...and for you to dismiss them like this...then dont keep asking us to provide arguments when you refuse to debate them... cost savings for the tax payer....but you are not interested in that... decision making is more efficient because it not one huge organisation that is slow to react to changes and allocating resources... 1 hospital can provide much better care for the patients in the area as it make decisions independent of burecrats who dont have a clue about running a hospital or the needs of the local area |
| Date | 01:32:22, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | Nowhere in that massive wall of incoherent, whining, sanctimonious bullshit was there one iota of a 'good point'. Maybe if you had either the ability to form at least a coherent sentence or even the ability to think logically then I might have something to work with. As it stands, you said nothing. Out of your depth. |
| Date | 02:44:14, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | well i just think what you talk is false wrong and when ever you lose an argument you resort to abuse and insults which pathetic...why do you even bother playing this game..we listen to all your crap about revolution and socialism which is known to fail everytime... you cant even actually dismiss any of my points with logical arguments |
| Date | 02:46:12, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | you sit their telling us to make our points and then you just shout abuse and im afraid you are out of your depth because you cannot sit and dismiss my points by talking about policy simply by throwing insults because you have nothing better to say |
| Date | 12:29:07, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | I've never lost an argument here. The only time I resort to insults is when you act fucking stupid and fail to get even the simplest of concepts into that thick fucking skull of yours. I'm unlikely to shift from a position of treating you like a child when all of your points are tired clichés and false ideological assumptions. Since you've never spent a moment of your time to look outside the bubble you've formed around yourself and merely accepted the pre-conceived notions handed to you, you can't see actual reality - free market economics is a failure, and the entire theory of 'perfect competition' is an laughably unworkable, unachievable mess. Laissez faire capitalism has failed on many occasions, socialism has never, it has only been brought down by the use of brutal force by fascist oppression. What about the USSR? For starters the USSR was 'state capitalist' as the state owned EVERYTHING and its fall was not actually caused by its economic system. For example, much like the US and other nations suffered an oil crisis in the 70s, the USSR had a similar issue in the 80s when they reached peak oil production....and since Saudi Arabia and others had already been bought off.... ...so no. I don't talk 'crap' about revolution and socialism. I've done my homework. I refuse to just accept what other people tell me is true, I actually go and find out for myself. Have you heard the saying that when anything is assumed with enourmous conviction and belief, we should always ask 'is it actually true?' - that's the driving force behind my work, and I strive to find the truth every single day. So when I find the truth about private health care, as I have, and then repeat my findings ad nauseum....then you come strolling in here with your predictable Thatcherite pish and wonder why I get a little pissed off. |
| Date | 12:40:49, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | i appreciate that at least you have made your arguments this time. You got to remember that I have only been on here a month so I have not seen any of your previous arguments. You simply say i pointed this out before |
| Date | 12:45:14, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Coburan Conservative Party | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | I sort of know what I am talking about too. I mean I do have a degree in economics and have studied marxist theories of economics too so I dont appreciate being called a child...And I completely agree that a major reason for the downfall of communism was that their leaders were just facist thugs...But you cannot believe that governments can predict what people need better than markets. I agree with you there is no such thing as a perfect market and the market does fail a lot but it adapts and reacts to changing needs much quicker than government can..I mean the toilet paper example how can the government predict how much toilet paper a country needs |
| Date | 12:53:35, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | As to the 'debate': Private health care is a perfect example of market failure, and is an abhorrent concept in of itself. Waiting times - having a parallel system of private care drives up waiting times in the public sector. Studies have shown this to be true, as countries with both private and public care have the longest waiting times. Private systems also have a tendency to leave the expensive cases to the public system, only taking patients who are younger, healthier, and less costly to treat. Private hospitals are primarily used for non-emergency care, merely highlighting these issues. The private system also tends to steal away badly needed doctors and nurses from the public sector. Health care should be about NEED not the ability to pay. |
| Date | 12:55:13, May 12, 2008 CET | From | Revolucia Partio de Koburo | To | Debating the Right-wing cowardice |
| Message | The market in of itself is not a bad thing, but regulation is a must. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 228 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 248 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 74 |
| Random fact: Particracy does not allow real-life fictional references (eg. Gandalf, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker). |
| Random quote: "The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us, but we don't ask for their love, only for their fear." - Heinrich Himmler |