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Bill: The Non-believers Equality Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: The Green Manalishi Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2611
Description[?]:
| http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/vieworganization.php?organizationid=1641 |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Current: The government requires foreign missionaries to register with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Proposed: Foreign missionaries are not permitted to enter the nation.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Current: The state has the right to veto the appointment of any ministers of religion.
Proposed: The state nominates ministers of religion, but the appointment is left up to the religious communities themselves.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Current: Religions are required to obtain government approval before promoting themselves or advertising in any manner.
Proposed: Religions are not permitted to promote themselves or advertise in any manner whatsoever.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The governments stance on religious schools.
Old value:: Any religion may set up a school, with no regulations.
Current: Religious schools are allowed, but are strictly regulated. Only recognised religions may set up religious schools.
Proposed: Religious schools are not allowed.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy with respect to prayer in schools.
Old value:: Teacher-led prayers in schools are forbidden, except in religious schools.
Current: Teacher-led prayers in schools are forbidden.
Proposed: Teacher-led prayers in schools are forbidden.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:29:46, July 15, 2008 CET | From |  Plowshare Collective | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | completely opposed to all of the above. |
| Date | 19:20:06, July 15, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | This doesn't allow non-believers rights, it removes the rights of believers. The State has no business in religion. Seperation of church and state. |
| Date | 23:44:21, July 15, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | never thought we would agree with some of our opposition but they are 110% correct. |
| Date | 00:14:39, July 16, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | ECB, unfortunately you have been lulled into the propaganda of the theists...but then it's what they do best. please explain to us why the following are not unfair on the non-believers -tax breaks for religions which other atheist organisation don't get. -having their children and other vulnerable members of society bombarded with bogus advertising and indoctrination. -opening their children up to the risk of anti-intellectual and hateful rhetoric in their formative years. |
| Date | 00:20:52, July 16, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | -Religions should be taxed. We agree -Advertising of ANYTHING should be banned But as for anti-intellectual and hateful rhetoric we fail to see this. Religion and theism is just as foolish as Socialism and Capitalism. The modern religions are called ideologies and inspire the same hatred and complaciency in knowing what is right and what is wrong. Blind faith and belief in a system is the death of wisdom. We must understand different views and ideas, but never assume ours are better. Science may be on the side of the athiest, but science changes everyday. So long as the theists respect the rights of the athiests, they should be alloted equal rights. |
| Date | 00:39:06, July 16, 2008 CET | From | Republican Patriciate Coalition | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | Absolutely support |
| Date | 23:52:55, July 16, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | religion and theism are absolutely not 'as foolish as' political ideologies because atleast most political ideologies are founded upon logic, reason, research and history. blind faith is religion, don't make the common apologist mistake of mixing fundamentalism up with passion. |
| Date | 04:01:45, July 18, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | Democracy has shown time and time again that the voters can be manipulated, the leaders corrupted, and the eventual downfall into stagnation, dictatorship, and collapse. Capitalism has shown it's faults. As has socialism. Blind faith in a political system is the same as religion. Logic and reason are not all we have in this world. We don't believe anyone should be fundamentalist, be it religious or political. But we also don't believe in the limiting of peoples ability to think as they wish. Ban the theists and what's to say the socialists won't go next? It's all thought. What the Thinker Think's is true, the Prover will Prove. Mental workings and all that. |
| Date | 16:39:29, July 18, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | The ECB isn't actually reading the arguments is it? Instead it has just assumed the podium to make a series of trite populisms. Stepping in on that comment 'we also don't believe in the limiting of peoples ability to think' - that's just the point though! Religions tell people what to think, they don't encourage people to think for themselves. |
| Date | 23:01:31, July 18, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | Religions provide an important culutural benefit as well as an alternative way of thinking and observing the world. If you are religious, you must examine the world from an athiest to understand it differently, and if you are an athiest you must examine the world from a theist in order to understand why you believe they are wrong. We are not robots, and you cannot program us to simply not think something. Some will be simple and get stuck in one idea, but the rest will be intelligent enough to form their own opinions based on all the different theories out there. You are simply so ingrained as an athiest that you cannot understand the benefits of an agnostic system allowing both extremes. This is a shame. |
| Date | 23:03:07, July 18, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | As an athiest you are right now TELLING people what to think. Don't argue over the ideas, argue over principals that you are violating. |
| Date | 23:35:22, July 18, 2008 CET | From | Republican Patriciate Coalition | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | Well I'm all for telling people what to think. If you're stupid enough to be religious you don't deserve to think for yourself. Should donate your organs to the more worthy of life. |
| Date | 11:55:45, July 19, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | We have tried to have open debate with the ECB following their pleas in other policy structuring, but unfortunately our conclusion on them is that of a glib, dysfunctional party that has no idea what it's own policies really are and certainly has little force or reason behind promoting them. The ECB talk about 'all the different theories out there' with the foolish and misguided assumption that atheism is a single theory and each religion constitutes a separate one. How wrong can they be? Atheism is the open freedom from a tied down belief and by open, we mean open to just about any other possibility. It is really quite a remarkable freedom of thought for those uninitiated. If we take the 3 main Abrahamic religions on the other hand - which in turn cover all the denominations from evangelists to kabbalists to zaidis, they are based upon the same principles (to name but a few: enslavement to a 'system' of thinking, hierachies of authority, righteousness, philistinism, anti-intellectualism, the denial of basic human liberties) |
| Date | 12:00:56, July 19, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | 'We are not robots, and you cannot program us to simply not think something' We also disagree with that one strongly and call history as our witness. 'You are simply so ingrained as an athiest that you cannot understand the benefits of an agnostic system allowing both extremes' 2 things: 1) 'ingrained atheist (sic.)' - isn't that an oxymoron? 2) What is your definition of extreme? and don't make the assumption that just because theism and atheism are diametrically opposed then they are also both equi-credible. |
| Date | 19:56:01, July 19, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | We are unsure where we are losing you, though we admit this is an odd way of thinking. The Juedo-Christian texts are filled with hateful and out-dated ideas, this we agree. But at the time they did not apear as such. We have fears that this bill and the issues, which we haven't ignored and we don't understand why we are constantly told that we are, would remove the ability to think in ways that are deamed religious. When does a religion stop and a philosophy begin? Buddhism? Hinduism? Brotherhoodism? Athiesm is not a single theory, but neither is religion. The problems associated with clumping all religion together are the same as clumping the various ways of thought associated with atheism. What we are trying to get at, in all our rambiling and raving, is that State intervention in appointing ministers, banning of religious schools, banning prayer in school, and banning missionaries puts a massive pressure on society to be athiestic. We are fine with athiesm and we believe in people's freedoms to think as they wish to, but we must allow EVERYONE to think WHATEVER they wish so long as no harm comes out of it. The penalties for complete freedom of though are religious nuts, but the rewards are a greater culture and rate of growth in all fields. Ban "religious" thought and you have a very nice way to label opposing theories and ideas to the status quo and silence them. These bills aren't simply dealing religion, they are dealing with freedom of speech and thought, and the freedom to think "wrong" as well as "right". |
| Date | 00:18:01, July 20, 2008 CET | From | Republican Patriciate Coalition | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | Well some people are simply too stupid to understand what is wrong and right. This bill obviously does not sit on freedoms other then freedom from the lunacy of religion. |
| Date | 02:09:50, July 20, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | A small amount of lunacy is the price we must pay for a large amount of freedom and progress. You'll find fringe groups and fundamentalists on both sides |
| Date | 02:54:48, July 20, 2008 CET | From | Republican Patriciate Coalition | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | And they'll be dealt with |
| Date | 22:38:36, July 20, 2008 CET | From | Enlightened Cosmic Brotherhood | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | We find it hard to reason with the mad. |
| Date | 13:33:18, July 21, 2008 CET | From | The Green Manalishi Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | ECB, one of the things you are failing to acknowledge here is the fact that these proposals largely protect the vulnerable people that don't actually have this 'free choice' which you like to talk about. true free choice and freedom of thought is largely the preserve of the educated classes, yet 2 of these articles deal directly with school children and there is a large correlation to show that modern day religious converts have both lower IQ and a less socially stable background than your average atheist or agnostic. |
| Date | 11:42:57, September 15, 2008 CET | From | Liberal Party | To | Debating the The Non-believers Equality Act |
| Message | When this passes the State becomes the Worst Church of all. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 253 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 259 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 203 |
| Random fact: It is possible for a player to transfer ownership of a character or a royal house to another player. This should be done in a public way, such as on the Character Transfers thread, so that if a dispute arises in the future, Moderation can be pointed towards evidence of the transfer. |
| Random quote: "Power always has to be kept in check; power exercised in secret, especially under the cloak of national security, is doubly dangerous." - William Proxmire |