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Bill: Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621
Details
Submitted by[?]: Collectivist Party of Lodamun
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2621
Description[?]:
| Parliament orders that all executive orders issued by Prime Minister Williams be removed from debate and archived for future reference. Parliament further orders Prime Minister Williams to suspend her use of executive orders until a constitutional decision is made on the issue. Parliament notes that until a constitutional decision on the matter is reached, it is the understanding of Parliament that no power of executive order exists or has ever existed for either the office of President or Prime Minister. Finally, Parliament countermands all executive orders issued by Prime Minister Williams, and declares them null and void. Being an issue of constitutional significance, and reflecting the learned opinion of the Parliament of Free Peoples, this resolution requires a supermajority (a constitutional, 2/3rds majority) to pass. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 03:56:09, August 14, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | OOC: OK, where should I start? Right, I know where. On the part I said I was not going to issue any more executive orders until we resolved the problem. But let me continue with the actual bill. "Parliament notes that until a constitutional decision on the matter is reached, it is the understanding of Parliament that no power of executive order exists or has ever existed for either the office of President or Prime Minister." Let me clarify that: No decision has been made on whether or not the power exists. Meaning that until a no decision is given, it is assumed it is allowed. But in order for Parliament to say that the executive orders do not exist, it will need a 2/3 majority. "Finally, Parliament countermands all executive orders issued by Prime Minister Williams, and declares them null and void." Since no decision has been made on who has the power or whether or not it is allowed AND executive orders CANNOT be overturned unless by a Court of Law, if a violation of the law occurs, you cannot declare them null and void. Parliament cannot void any executive branch decision (unless it is use of the military). |
| Date | 03:56:32, August 14, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | OOC: I can keep going but I am tired of writing. |
| Date | 04:08:47, August 14, 2008 CET | From | Holy Eliyahu Confession | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | We offer this resolution our full support. ooc: again, you cant use the fact that this game doesn't develop the laws as much as the real world as an excuse to do whatever you want. in the real world you probably could get away with this, but in game the people who play don't sit around all day and plug possible loopholes to the separation of powers. if the constitution doesn't say anything specifically about something, then we as the parties of this nation have to reach a consensus on it out of character before it can be brought into the game rather than having one person act like they have the right to make shit up as they go. role playing is a two way street, and you cant always have it exactly the way you want it, otherwise i would have probably had Williams assassinated years ago. |
| Date | 04:08:55, August 14, 2008 CET | From | Collectivist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | This resolution is the final decision on the power of executive order (if it fails that does not mean it ever existed, a separate resolution also requiring a constitutional majority would be required to establish that), that is why we have already noted that it will require a constitutional majority. Furthermore, as the sole voice on the extent of the power of the executive (to the point where, with a 2/3rds majority our constitution allows the legislature to replace the elected HoS with a hereditary monarch) a constitutional majority of Parliament can countermand or do whatever else it wants to the executive. ((OOC: A note on OOC. We prefer to keep everything IC that can be because it makes things less personal. OOC should only be used to convey a message that would not be possible were IC real life, like this message. Therefore, everything we write is IC unless it is preceded by "OOC:". We hope that other parties will do the same. This constitutional conversation is something that definitely could happen in real life, and should therefore be IC only.)) |
| Date | 04:18:30, August 14, 2008 CET | From | Holy Eliyahu Confession | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | ooc: i consider anything regarding role playing to be out of character, so i try to preface it as out of character. i agree we should keep debate as ic as possible in the future however.. |
| Date | 04:31:58, August 14, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | OOC: My bad, the first stament was OOC but the rest was IC, I simply forgot the IC. IC: "This resolution is the final decision on the power of executive order (if it fails that does not mean it ever existed, a separate resolution also requiring a constitutional majority would be required to establish that), that is why we have already noted that it will require a constitutional majority. Furthermore, as the sole voice on the extent of the power of the executive (to the point where, with a 2/3rds majority our constitution allows the legislature to replace the elected HoS with a hereditary monarch) a constitutional majority of Parliament can countermand or do whatever else it wants to the executive." The question here is not whether or not an executive order power exists but to whom this power belongs. The only way the executive branch can executive the laws is through executive orders. So, that statement saying: "Parliament notes that until a constitutional decision on the matter is reached, it is the understanding of Parliament that no power of executive order exists or has ever existed for either the office of President or Prime Minister" is simply not valid. Basically, you are dismantling the Executive Branch. "Furthermore, as the sole voice on the extent of the power of the executive (to the point where, with a 2/3rds majority our constitution allows the legislature to replace the elected HoS with a hereditary monarch) a constitutional majority of Parliament can countermand or do whatever else it wants to the executive." Yes, Parliament can but since the wording of this bill implies that no executive order can be given, that being the only method to carry out th laws, it is impossible for Parliament to do it, even unanimously, unless its intent is to abolish the executive branch, in which case that should be made clear. OOC: Game Mechanics will not let you abolish the executive branch. Just thought I should point that out. |
| Date | 04:33:55, August 14, 2008 CET | From | Holy Eliyahu Confession | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | ooc: the head of state can still constitute the executive branch, no? |
| Date | 04:58:12, August 14, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | OOC: He/she is the leader if the executive branch. But my point was that the question is not whether or not executive orders can be issued but who can. If no executive orders exist, how will the executive branch, including the President, execute them? |
| Date | 04:59:18, August 14, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Resolution on Executive Orders, 2621 |
| Message | Please do change the wording of this bill. It looks as if you are trying to eliminate the executive branch. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 115 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 23 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 12 |
| Random fact: There are two countries based on Egypt in the game. Cobura is based on modern Egypt with a retro twist, while Hawu Mumenhes is based on Ancient Egypt with a modernist twist. |
| Random quote: "If you're not turned on to politics, politics will turn on you." - Ralph Nader |