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Bill: OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together....
Details
Submitted by[?]: Anti-Faggotry League
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2693
Description[?]:
| The reason we are here is to make an example of you. We're making an example to all other nations who think they can reject international demands without fear of reprisal. We're making an example to all other nations who think that RP'ing 32 aircraft carriers and helicopter-railgun-ninjas is acceptable. For too long you've been ridiculous. I know you SEE yourselves as a super-awesome organised nation with awesome RP and awesome everything. But the rest of the world sees you as arrogant, ridiculous, and a perfect example of nationstates RPing. You take part in Dovanian power-politics and attempt to block other nations from colonising ; yet you refuse any RP that could possibly affect you negatively. You claim an unbeatable economy, civil utopian harmony, a military bigger than God's. You've taken the RP-to-win credo to heart and you're using consent as a means of blocking any RP that might make you lose. That's why Iori feels he can alienate and annoy other nations without any fear of retaliation. Well now, by entering your nation, we are taking away that invulnerable missile-shield of consent. We're showing you that from now on, you should hold the opinions of other nations in some regard. How many times have we seen Iori say "Sekowo doesn't care what other nations think"? It's time for Sekowo to care. Firstly, I see already you're preparing for a Deltarian invasion. Feel free. There is nothing you can do to Deltaria that we cannot accept. If you ruin our economy, the peasants will tighten their belts a little more, we'll declare national bankruptcy and not all that much will change. If you ruin our military, we'll apply for protectorate status until we can rebuild. If you try to eliminate our culture or our people, we'll be back before any genocidal programs could have possibly become irreversable, and we'll repopulate with the Deltarian Diaspora. That's the beauty of Deltaria ; we can accept that she's a third-world hellhole, and because she's a third-world hellhole she can take one hell of a beating and still be the Deltaria we know and love. I don't personally care who rules her for five years here or ten years there. None of us are going to leave Sekowo to defend Deltaria, no matter who takes over it or what they do to it. We're here until the job is done. I want to apologise however, for our intial conduct on entering the nation. In retrospect, I feel it was in poor form. I'm not the leader of this invasion ; I'm just an organiser, so any proposals I make here will have to be accepted on an individual level. But here's what I'm willing to do, in the interest of fostering more civility between the two factions. Note that this is not a "bargain", I'm going to do this even if you don't offer the slightest compromise in return. 1. Rename my party to something less frivolous (and ask the others to do the same) 2. Stop making retarded bills and comments (and ask the others to do the same) 3. Stop littering everything with apostrophes (and ask the others to do the same) 4. Attempt to abide by the established Sekowan bill naming and creation methods (and ask the others to do the same) 5. Remain open to negotiation and be willing to cause less damage to Sekowo than I originally intended 6. Solemnly promise not to interfere with the Sekowan culture, history, national styles and naming, or anything else which is an integral part of Sekowo, and not simply a current international status of power. As for you guys, I would suggest you ACCEPT what we're doing to Sekowo. I'm not asking you to like it, I'm not asking you to stop fighting it, I'm not even asking you not to outright reject it and pretend it never happened. I'm simply suggesting you accept it. Because here's the bottom line ; what we do to you will be accepted by the rest of the game community, even if you pretend it never happened. So you can go back to your 32 aircraft carriers and your towering economy and your colonies. But the rest of the game community will be offering to send you peacekeepers and humanitarian aid, and asking what's going on in Deltarian Dovani. If you'd prefer to exist in a vacuum outside of the rest of Terra, like the Kafuristanis or the Istalians, and be utterly incapable of interacting in any way with any other nation without being told to stop godmoding and linked to the bills we'll pass destroying your power, that's fine by us. So, in the interest of giving you time to think about the benefits of accepting and attempting to reverse what we've done after we're gone (and even perhaps, to negotiate a little leniency from us), I'm going to let you know exactly what we have planned. #1 YOUR ECONOMY ----------------------------- We've all heard Iori brag about the fabulous urbanised first-world utopia you guys are in. We're going to end it. A good hyperinflation distaster, a national declaration of bankruptcy, and then the sale of most of your national assets to foreign concerns will do the trick nicely. Now, you can of course pretend it never happened, but the rest of the world is going to treat you as though it did, and link you to the relevent bills whenever you claim otherwise. If you ever want to RP internationally from the position of a modest economic power, I suggest you accept the economic crash and start thinking of ways to rebuild the economy. #2 YOUR COLONIES ----------------------------- We've all heard Iori brag about the Dovani for Dovanians policy. And it's been ridiculous that you have been allowed to block nations from colonising Dovani while using your RPconsentshield to stop any consequences of this policy. As such, we'll be taking your colonies, unless you can figure out some way accepted by the GAME COMMUNITY to keep them from us. You can, naturally, pretend it never happened and play with your colonies, like Hitler giving orders to his imaginary divisions. But the rest of the world will accept the cession, and unless you accept that they're gone and start working out a way to get them back (hell, we'll GIVE them back to you if it looks you've started RP'ing sensibly and not considering yourselves untouchable), nobody outside of Sekowo will ever agree that they're yours. #3 YOUR MILITARY --------------------------- We've all heard Iori brag about your 5,000 planes. Like the economy, your military is going too, and the same rules apply. You can apply for protectorate status of a stronger nation while you rebuild yourself into a modest regional power, or you can command your laser-ninja-deathstars with the rest of the world ignoring you. Totally up to you. #4 YOUR CIVIL HARMONY ------------------------------------ We've all heard Iori brag about the civil harmony of multi-ethnic Sekowo. We're going to institute rulings to stir up ethnic tension and violence. You could of course, ignore it, and forever be the nation that refuses to accept whatever atrocities we dream up to be committed here. Or you could accept it, and RP speaking out to the people against ethnic hatred and accuse us of deliberately trying to incite it. You could propose peace plans over the next few generations, and try to educate people on the dangers of vendetta and ancestral grudges. You could do your best to keep the peace in a nation that will forever be stained with ethnic violence, and come close to reaching your past level of harmony. Again, it's totally up to you guys. So, yeah, basically all I'm trying to say is that we're going to fuck up Sekowo quite a bit. You're no longer going to be almighty, all-powerful, all-controlling. You can accept what we do, and enter a new and interesting age of Sekowan Rebuilding. Or you can outright reject what we do and never, ever, ever be taken serously in international RP again. And on a final note, you guys should think about what exactly brought us all here, and how to avoid it happening again. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:21:24, January 06, 2009 CET | From |  Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | OOC: In RP, they are not COLONIES they are full Sekowan states, with pro-Sekowan population. In this REALISTIC RP that you root for, they would never be part of any other nation, ever. If you come to Sekowo, you should accept the Sekowan RP, which is that the "colonies" are actually full states. |
| Date | 13:22:24, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | OOC: Also, Grammar Nazi Party should be atleast warned because of obvious in-game personal attack towards Iori. |
| Date | 13:36:34, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Okay, they're full Sekowan states ; I now accept that. Full Sekowan states about to be owned by a private company, apparantly, and with no political representation or right to suffrage ; so you can understand where my confusion might stem from. However, there's no reason that integral parts of a sovereign nation can't be taken from them (Kosovo, South Ossetia and Abkazhia are very recent examples). As it stands, we can annex them when we take power, and you can refuse to acknowledge it (although the rest of the world will). While this situation is fine by us, it's not optimal, so I'm willing to compromise. Firstly, Deltaria will take a large proportion of the full Sekowan States, regardless of what you want and regardless of whether you decide to pretend it never happened. We're willing to leave you with a few, as a compromise, but more importantly ; we're willing to keep our RP away from them. We'll own them, we'll administrate them, we'll collect taxes from them, we'll call on them in times of war and put military bases in them and all that sort of thing, but we won't disturb the detailed statistics and information on them that you've compiled. You can think of them as having been demographically unchanged between the time we annexed them and the time you get them back. |
| Date | 13:57:58, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Actually, Deltaria won't be taking many of them as you already have Jelbania and Trigunia. You can only take 10 without breaking the rules. Or 15 if Jelbania is not part of you anymore. And if the "states" are not part of Sekowo, like Vascania was not Part of Hutori back in the day, you can't take them. That is how it worked back then and that is how it will work in the future. Now let's face the facts, this has nothing to do with "Sekowo having hegemony over Dovani or being a superpower", no, this is one of your personal power trips with Deltaria. Somehow you have gotten the Mordusian Players, who I thought were nice people (I had much interaction with them in the past) and Nasty-George to help you spread your unrealistic Deltarian Empire that in reality would never stay in one piece. Now after this shit is over, I'll just shut up and never RP anything anymore as I am extremely dissapointed in the whole RP community for backing this up. People were having nice internal RP and enjoying their game in Sekowo and you just had to come to F it up, did you? How did the railgunninjaswhatever bother you anyway? They didin't, because this is not about them, this is about your egoistic quest to make Deltaria even more unrealisticly powerfull. You are destroying the game for several players, do you get some sick satisfaction from it? I think you do. You are as bad as the Kafuri Players, as bad as Steve and his minions, as bad as the Goons. You are the cancer that is slowly killing the community within, because you don't do this for fun, you do this to WIN. |
| Date | 14:18:46, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Deltárska Ľudova Strana | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | "Actually, Deltaria won't be taking many of them as you already have Jelbania and Trigunia. You can only take 10 without breaking the rules. Or 15 if Jelbania is not part of you anymore. And if the "states" are not part of Sekowo, like Vascania was not Part of Hutori back in the day, you can't take them. That is how it worked back then and that is how it will work in the future." Not true. The rules limit the number of game-mechanics countries that can be controlled by an empire, not RP regions. |
| Date | 14:22:29, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | And you are saying this because you are LOSING. Bah, I am Nasty-George by the way? This is not personal Khaler, it's you who's making it personal. Relax will ya? |
| Date | 14:23:53, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | The rules were made due to treatylocks and other nefarious means of controlling nations ; they don't apply to nations voluntarily joining or entering into union, and they certainly don't apply to RP territories. If you feel the game is "destroyed" because Sekowo will no longer be the God-Almighty Potentate of Everything, then that's your problem, not mine. If you wanted to have a "nice internal RP", Sekowo never should have gotten involved on the world stage as a power-player. And you shouldn't have let Iori talk where people from other nations could hear him. And of course I do this for fun. |
| Date | 14:25:55, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Now come on, I'm trying to be reasonable here. You're going to lose the majority of your colonies ; that's not negotiable. But negotiation can surely make this better for you. |
| Date | 14:26:15, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Quite enjoyable fun, too. |
| Date | 14:30:02, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Grammar Nazi Party | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Actually, you're in a good position now to take up the challenge and do something with it instead of Sekowo sitting on its bored fat arse and playing God with no interaction. Things are not as rosy for countries in the real world either. Let's be real. Nobody is doing this because of some power-tripping. I thought this bill pretty much clarified it. |
| Date | 14:32:59, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | It is not personal. But I think I might suggest some Kafuri Players to jump to Wantuni with me... You know, Citizen Wantuni and stuff. But nothing personal, as that would be a nasty thing to do. This is the 2nd time Deltarians are ruining one of the nations I've been part of... and yeah, it pisses me off. No, really, I would have nothing against this if you would actually stay in Sekowo. But no, you just institute your crap on the current players and leave and then pressure them to follow your RP afterwards or face exclusion. That is crap. And wasn't exclusion of other players part of the reason steve got banned? Now hey, rules should be the same for everyone... |
| Date | 14:42:06, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | We're not trying to exclude you. We're saying that if we destroy this nations economy, and then after we're gone you pretend it never happened, other nations will say "yes it did". The only 'exclusion' that will occur is when they stop RPing with you on their own terms, due to you being completely and utterly wrong about the economic state of Sekowo. In other words, it's the same as me telling you that if you say your army is made up of samurai riding dragguns, nobody is going to do a war-rp with you. So stop grasping at straws. Also, what is this other nation we "ruined"? I remember nothing of this. |
| Date | 14:48:33, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | That does not change the fact that it was hit-and-run mission that had no real RP behind it, only OOC grudges that were settled in-game. In roleplay, you don't want to take over Sekowo. That makes it crap. Oh, and I think you need 2/3 to transfer regions to other states? Because you need 2/3 to change the capital and stuff like that. |
| Date | 14:55:50, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | We don't want to take over Sekowo ; we want to cripple it. Like, for instance, what happened to the losers of WW1 and WW2? Like what happened to the Japanese in the Asian Stock Crash? There are other aims to war than full annexation, and we're perfectly content simply to destroy Sekowo as a hegemonic superpower. |
| Date | 15:06:34, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Sekowo has created it's position through diplomacy and relations with other Dovanian countries, not through holes in the system like you do. If there is "hegemony" in Terra that should be considered unjust, it has always been Deltaria (and well, The Kennedies for a while), because it has not been created through RP but crappy game mechanics. |
| Date | 15:11:52, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | If you got to where you are through diplomacy, why aren't the other Dovanian nations helping you? You'd think after all, that if it was THEIR goodwill that managed to get you 36 aircraft carriers and robot-ninja-railguns, the least they could do is protect you from political subversives from the far-flung third world? |
| Date | 15:18:09, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | By the way, Khaler. I have no homeland - I do not care about nations. You may threaten me like that, but I honestly have stopped believed in homelands since I lost my original. But you must beware, after doing what you threatened, you won't be the same to us anymore. I have nothing personal against, so you better not make it. |
| Date | 17:26:59, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Why would I care what you think of me or anyone else? Right now I don't feel like I could ever rp with you anyway after pulling a stunt like this that has no RP value, only OOC grudges that are fueled with the hunger to WIN all the time. Loosing is not the problem, but you coming to our nation and destroying our economy and then telling you can dictate what we can RP in the future even though you are no longer in the nation is just not acceptable. |
| Date | 17:29:42, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Sorry, but if someone thinks he can dictate what I or anyone else can RP with their "exclusion" tactic, I will take it personally and dislike everyone who is taking part in it. |
| Date | 17:42:45, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | We never said we would dictate your RP after we are gone, we are merely provoking your expected future attitude towards what we are doing now, and that's basically the reason we are doing this. The fact that you will certainly not bear losing your powerful, god-mighty nation. This is not personal for me. If I were in your position Khaler, I would definitely not care, and try to RP as best as I could so that people would remember me as a fearsome opposition. |
| Date | 18:07:01, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Christ almighty Khaler, we're not "dictating" anything to you or telling you how to RP or threatening you with "exclusion". We're simply saying that even if you do act like dicks and choose to ignore everything we do here, the rest of the game won't. Which basically means that after we're gone, every time you pop up bragging about your superduper economy and 32 aircraft carriers, everyone will laugh at you for being dicks and ignore you. I'm certainly not FORCING them or even asking them to do that. That's just how it will be (because the rest of the game doesn't happen to share your view that Sekowo's godalmightiness is sacrosanct and untouchable) and if you are excluded from RP for continually acting like a dick, then the blame will fall entirely on you and your dickishness. |
| Date | 18:58:37, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Just like you decided to ignore the fact that NWO nuked Deltaria back in the day? |
| Date | 19:05:26, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Firstly, I wasn't there for that and had nothing to do with that. Secondly, it never officially happened because all persons involved decided near the end that it was a stupid RP. That happens quite a lot whenever nukes are involved. It won't apply to this case, however, because there will be bills. Legitimate resolutions, passed by the majority of the Sekowan Parliament, which will in no uncertain terms fuck your nation up. |
| Date | 19:18:43, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Can we swift the debate from Deltaria to Sekowo. In terms of RP, Deltaria has nothing to do with this. |
| Date | 19:38:07, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Central Union of Trade and Economy | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | What RP are you talking about? The "Parties suddendly appearing from nowhere for no reason, destroying everything and then disapearing without a trace" RP? |
| Date | 19:39:34, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | I can very well base our appearance on something. That's not the point. |
| Date | 21:41:04, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Centrist Liberals | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Actually Deltaria ruling all those colonies would be as stupid RP as Sekowo ruling them, so you should give them to Kalopia instead, we are better :) |
| Date | 22:26:28, January 06, 2009 CET | From | Laid Madame Coalition | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Haha, that's the Kalopian spirit! |
| Date | 03:09:37, January 07, 2009 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Since it's better to deal with this more openly, the things I've not covered in it, post here; http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11096&mforum=particracy |
| Date | 00:56:21, January 08, 2009 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Listen up, because this will be my ONLY offer on the subject of our colonies. If you want them really badly, I would be willing to help SELL SOME of them (key words being SELL and SOME). Certain restrictions named by us would apply, but I'm willing to attempt to be fair about it. Secondly, our military is just fine, its your's that is the problem. You, thats right YOU can have a military like ours if you'd just bother to take the time to RP it. Hell, I've even proposed to a few people in that past that we help you come up with a military like ours. Ok, maybe some the swords are a bit over the top, but they are just decoration, and not actualy used. And the tanks are indeed plausible. Lastly, I'll be in contact with some of you in private about this. |
| Date | 05:36:41, January 08, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | ... we can have... a military like yours... if we.... *FACEPALM* All negotiations are over. We have no further interest in compromise. Putting this bill to archive. |
| Date | 00:39:25, January 09, 2009 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | I clearly overestimated your inteligence... |
| Date | 06:03:51, January 09, 2009 CET | From | Anti-Faggotry League | To | Debating the OOC ; How the Invaders and Patriots can work together.... |
| Message | Yeah, clearly. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 0 | ||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 539 | ||||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 61 |
| Random fact: Party organizations are eligible for deletion if they are over 50 in-game years old, do not have at least 1 active member or are historically significant and possess historically significant information. |
| Random quote: "Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates." - Gore Vidal |