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Bill: OOC: 2706 Census
Details
Submitted by[?]: HaLeumit Tikvah
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2707
Description[?]:
| I was thinking, since we haven't done one in as long as I can remember being here, that we should do a census of the Beiteynuese population, so we have demographics for future reference. --Religious Census-- The last thing i could find on this was here: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=104609 Proposed Numbers: 72% Jewish - 50% Orthodox - 31% Reform - 15% Haredi - 3% Conservative 18% Christian - 38% Ebionite Church - 33% Terran Catholic - 20% Catholic Church of Terra - 9% Church of Pontesi 2% Progressive Darwinist 4% None 3% Muslim - 87% Sunni - 13% Shia 1% Other --Ethnic Census-- 78% Jewish 17.5% Pntek 3% Majatran 1.5% Squibblian I haven't been able to find any ethnic census, if somebody else could that would be great, but I think by and large it would follow the religious splits in our nation. So what would everyones opinion be? How do you think events in Beiteynu would have shaped our demographics? Justifications for proposed numbers: The near continuous dominance of Jewish/Zionist parties would support a continued Jewish majority. Above that, the continued success of the CZP would suggest an increase in support from 'Christian Jews', which coupled with the past strife and religious bans in Barmenistan, I believe would justify an increase in the number of Ebionite Christians. I've also upped the number of orthodox and haredi Jews, and reduced the reform number, seeing as how the previous trend for Liberal Jewish parties to come along every decade or so has now unfortunately disappeared. For the Pntek religious figures, I've tried to vary them to reflect the make-up of religions in Pontesi today. The establishment of the Belknap Monarchy and the Church of Pontesi as the official religon for a long period would have encouraged the growth of Church of Pontesi amoung the Pntek population, however at the same time it would have encouraged Catholic Pontesian to become part of our Pntek community, given its strong Catholic dominance. I've also moved a large number from the TCC to the CCT, to reflect what I believe would be a gradual shift away from the Deltarian-controlled semi-pagan TCC to the more moderate CCT. The Progressive Darwinism numbers I've drastically cut due to nearly two centuries of having declared it a cult and refused to grant citizenship and other 'rights' to its members. Muslims numbers are hard to give reasons to change due to Barmenistans continued refusal to admit it's a Majority Muslim (or even Majority Majatran) country, so I haven't touched them. Ethnic numbers I've really just based off the religious ones; Jews and Ebionites I've made ethnically Jewish, other Christians and Progressive Darwinists Pnteks, and Muslims Majatran. Ethnicities would still reside roughly in their historical regions (Muslims in the South, Pntek in Tadraki and Endlid and Jews basically everywhere) but due to the Pontesian Protectorates would be more segregated than before, with a signficant number of Pnteks choosing to live in or around the Protectorates. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:29:21, January 18, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Let's keep the same religious census the same. |
| Date | 17:09:41, January 18, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Maybe a little but not alot |
| Date | 14:52:35, January 22, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Sorry I've posted this and then ignored it for a week, I'm planning to do something with it at the weekend. CZP, generally I'm not making any major changes to it, just a few to reflect how the nation has changed. |
| Date | 22:20:38, January 23, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | OK, I've put up some proposed numbers. How does this look to everyone? |
| Date | 03:26:16, January 25, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I think this would be good for Race numbers: White 60.0% Black 32.8% Majatran 4.4% Diavoni 2.8% Squibblian 15.1% |
| Date | 13:44:34, January 25, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I don't see why we'd have White as an ethnicity. Everyone seems to consider themselves white in this gaem, however Beiteynu has also seen Jewish as a race as well as a religion, so wouldn't it make more sense to define 'White' Jews as simply Jewish? Who are the blacks? Beiteynu has never had a black population (there suspiciously absent all over Terra, in fact). I really don't see why we'd develop a Dovani minority either. The Squibblian minority makes sense, especially given the recent changes of ownership in Squibble. I've added them in. |
| Date | 01:37:43, January 26, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I said blacks because if the recent elections of black leaders in the homeland. |
| Date | 17:48:28, January 26, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Yes, but that is something you've invented out of nowhere. if I was to decide tomorrow that a 1/3rd of the Beiteynuese population would now be Asian, should it just be accepted. I'm sorry, but I don't think one party should be able to create an ethnic group out of nowhere with no justification for it, other than presumably wanting to reflect the US elections. |
| Date | 01:39:02, January 28, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I have always chosen black leaders for my party, also we could be the first to have black's as an ethnicity. |
| Date | 17:49:29, January 28, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | If you've always chosen black leaders how can this be the first black leaders of Beiteynu? I'm not objecting out of any principle CZP, I just believe there has to be some sort of justification for the creation of an ethnicity, especially if you want to make 1/3rd of the population that ethnicity. I believe there used to be a black population in Lodamon- if you can come up with a legitimate reason why they would choose to move to Beiteynu, I'll add a minority, but I don't see how you can justify changing the ethnicity of 1/3rd of the population. |
| Date | 18:29:40, January 28, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | First, i said black HoS and HoG How about due to economic issues in Ludunum and the rest of tera, also due to the ellections of black leaders, many blacks migrated to the homeland. |
| Date | 22:24:51, January 28, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Well, why would Beiteynuese economic conditions be better than the rest of Terras? It should really be worse, given the Crusaders, Luthori, almost continual threat of war with Pontesi and our extremely high defence budget. The election of black leaders is a recent thing, and its like suggesting the election of, say, Sarkozy would cause more Hungarians to want to move to France. |
| Date | 23:12:33, January 28, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | But still a non-black world is un realistic, sekowo has them, as ask for a percent any percent. |
| Date | 13:13:40, January 29, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Well, again, why would black Sekowans specifically want to move here? A World is zero blacks isn't really unrealistic, but it is lacking something, you are correct. However, Beiteynu is one of a number of countries with an established RP ethnicity, culture etc. Wouldn't it make more sense to create a predominantly black nation in one that doesn't require ruining other peoples previous RP? |
| Date | 00:38:53, January 30, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | not really, they could be black Jews, RL Israel has them |
| Date | 13:54:21, January 30, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | True, but wouldn't they just be recorded under the Jewish ethnicity since we don't really draw a distinction between different Jews? |
| Date | 20:58:37, January 30, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | But we should have a racial cencus as well |
| Date | 22:00:33, January 30, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Jews would be considered a race though, I imagine, in the same way Ethiopian Jews are considered the same race as European Jews in Israel. |
| Date | 14:41:23, January 31, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I know but we should a cencus based on color. |
| Date | 18:46:27, January 31, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | I think to do that we'd have to break down the entire Jewish ethnicity into different sections as well to do that, and that would involve breaking down where the Jews have went during the various troubles, much like how the real Jewish population is divided by where they have fled. We can work out that stuff later if you like, but I'd like to get this passed, so are you, and the other parties of course, happy with the unbroken down numbers as they are? |
| Date | 03:08:04, February 01, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | Sure I like it, but is this just us or us and the colony's |
| Date | 16:53:18, February 01, 2009 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | just Beiteynu. |
| Date | 23:24:19, February 01, 2009 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the OOC: 2706 Census |
| Message | okay then, I support this. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 132 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 68 |
| Random fact: "OOC", "IC" and "IG" are commonly-used acronyms in Particracy. "OOC" refers to comments, discussions and actions which are out-of-character, meaning they are done player-to-player rather than party-to-party. "IC" refers to in-character interactions (ie. party-to-party). Similarly, "IG" means in-game, although this term may also simply refer to what happens in the actual game interface, as opposed to on the forum or elsewhere. "RP" just means "role-play". |
| Random quote: "We are told that this is an odious and unpopular tax. I never knew a tax that was not odious and unpopular with the people who paid it." - John Sherman |