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Bill: Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty
Details
Submitted by[?]: Tuesday Is Coming
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes for the ratification of a treaty. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2129
Description[?]:
| This bill asks for the ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty. If this treaty is ratified, it becomes binding and will define national law. |
Proposals
Article 1
Ratify the National Sovereignty Treaty.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:12:48, October 19, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | No. |
| Date | 04:07:00, October 20, 2005 CET | From |  Keymon Libertarian Alliance | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | May we ask why? |
| Date | 04:32:35, October 20, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | We don't believe in national sovereignty. The state should ultimately be abolished, not strengthened, and sovereignty belongs only to the people of the world. |
| Date | 23:50:51, October 20, 2005 CET | From | Keymon Libertarian Alliance | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | Ok...... well then, we apeal to the more moderate, reasonable factions of this nation to ratify this treaty. |
| Date | 01:09:29, October 21, 2005 CET | From | CNT/AFL | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | We oppose it as well, arbitrary lines on a map will not divide humans in their quests to overthrow the capitalist suppressors. |
| Date | 17:39:51, October 21, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | This is a debate of long standing in Lodamun, and there is no possibility of two-thirds voting to renounce our right to protest the actions of other governments, or the right of other governments to protest our actions. In fact this is a truly off treaty, because it uses the language of national sovereignty to limit the power of the nation to conclude treaties! The spectre of "libertarians" demanding enhanced power for the state, frankly, is one that mystifies us completely. Why does sovereignty belong to the national governemt? Shouldn't it belong to the individual, free of interference from the nationsal government whioch exists onyl to enforce contracts? In Lodamun, aren't we debating a bill that would remove national government sovereignty over libertarian free communities? Why should we pass this BIg Government treaty? ooc: Fortunately, no real-world government would ever ratify something like this, with the possible exception of North Korea. It's pretty obvious it stems from the current anti-UN backlash in the USA, but even the US would not refuse to be bound by any form of international agreement, since pacts like the WTO allow US goods access to foreign markets, over-rising the sovereignty of foreign powers. For a true libertarian vision on sovereignty, google Kropotkin and federalism. This is a Big-Government conservative vision, not a libertarian one. |
| Date | 20:36:58, October 21, 2005 CET | From |  Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | 1) I believe I am more aquainted with libertarianism than you. 2) Im not a "perfect" libertarian. I dont think something because libertarians think it, my overall policies fall under the category of libertarianism. 3) My party isnt libertarian anymore. 4) A basic belief of libertarianism is that people should not mess with other people and generally leave them alone and mind their own business. This can be applied to governments too. 5) Another basic belief of libertarianism is that governments have a specific job to do concerning protecting their people. They dont have a responsibility to protect the people elsewhere, nor do they have the right to. |
| Date | 23:53:09, October 21, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | back ooc then: i was responding to the Keymon question. TIC, i know you're in favour of national sovereignty, i'm just curious why party-line Libertarians (which you are not, as i discovered when trying to use Cato Inst. theory to get term limits through) would support this. Libertarian socialists like CNT don't campaign for sovereignty of the State to be enhanced, and i've never understood why American Libertarian Party types do. They want their government limited, but then they rally around the flag when foreigners are introduced into the picture. Is it xenophobia, or is there another reason? Do they subcosciously identify with the State, even while they deny it? (Tocqueville on Americans as uniquely obedient to State authority is a good thing to read here.) I really see it as a flaw in Libertarian Capitalist thinking: they want the State limited vis-a-vis its citizens, but they also want the State expanded vis-a-vis other States. They objectively work against their own ideals. I think it's a function of patriotism being over-idenitifed with the State, or even in the current US vision, with the Head of State. |
| Date | 01:24:47, October 22, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Ratification of the National Sovereignty Treaty |
| Message | They want the international state limited as well. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 109 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 164 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 27 |
| Random fact: Large scale RP planning (such as wars, regional/continental conflicts, economic collapse, etc.) should be planned (as best as it can be) and should have consent of a majority of players involved. |
| Random quote: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx |