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Bill: Offer from the Federation of Zardugal
Details
Submitted by[?]: Democratic Capitalist Delegation
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2772
Description[?]:
| NEW INFORMATION: I have spent much time investigating the potential implications of accepting this offer by opening dialogue with various members of the international community. The information I have become privy to seems to suggest that Zardugal's intentions go beyond military strategy, and have to do with the major shipping lane between Lodamun and ourselves. It is rumored throughout the international community that after the establishment of the quarantine by the Lodamese Navy, the Zardic government among others felt that the Mad Dog Ocean (the waterway in question) was far too important to the economies of too many countries to be subject to the whims of a single country. The governments who offered up this information to us did so only under the condition of anonymity. That piece of information having been added, this resolution will be put to a vote, and legislators can now make an informed decision. A YES vote simply supports taking the next step and opening up discussion regarding what conditions would be acceptable for Zardic ships to dock in Telamonian ports. A NO vote means that your party would not support such a measure under any conditions whatsoever. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Federation of Zardugal has expressed interest in being allowed to dock their naval ships in Telamonian ports. Obviously, their motivations are strategic, but they have offered us some compensation of our choosing should we allow them to do this. Obviously, I thought it would be inappropriate to make a decision on a matter this sensitive without first consulting Parliament. Please, esteemed parties of Parliament, offer your thoughts on and discuss with one another the following: 1) Do you find it acceptable for us to, under any conditions, allow the Federation of Zardugal to dock naval vessels in Telamonian ports? 2a) If so, under what stipulations would you find it acceptable? 2b) And what compensation do you believe should be sought in return for such a permittance? Our goal should be to reach consensus on all three of these points, and if consensus cannot be obtained, a vast majority will be acceptable. Upon reaching an agreement, I will draft a resolution declaring Telamon's official position on the matter and it will be voted on and adopted. I thank the parties of Parliament for their time on this matter. Drake Dalton Prime Minister Republic of Telamon |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 11:01:40, May 30, 2009 CET | From | Telamon Labor Party | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | The Jewish Defense League believes that the Federation of Zardugal should have the ability to use our ports. We first would want to get approval by both the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, the Internal Minister, the Defence Minister and the Justice Minister. After the recent cut to our Defense Budget by 14 billion, we believe that it would be fine for the Federation of Zardugal to use our ports, since they currently have a Defence Budget of 1 trillion. The presence of the Federation of Zardugal's fleet in Telamon would be a bonus to our current defense for our coast line. We must know though for 100% that we would not be inviting the wolves home for dinner. The Federation of Zardugal is a military power in Terra and we can not take any chances with losing control of our country. There must also be confirmation from the Justice Minister that if were to agree to letting them use our ports that if they used the ports to attack another country that Telamon could not be included as a part of the attacking countries, because of the use of our land. If a deal was to be reached, we feel that a whole new outlook should be taken on what we would be offering. There is too much danger in letting the Federation of Zardugal use our ports. We should lease to them some land on the coast for them to build a naval port. The land given to them would be considered their sovereign soil. The reason for this is if we give them spots on a general port, we could run into conflicts of members of the Federation of Zardugal military, trying to enforce their own justice on persons who commit crimes against Federation of Zardugal soldiers or property. We also can't share one of our own Naval Bases. We should give them the land so that they can keep their soldiers and property protected. Another issue that we would want addressed is that any sailor or soldier that is on shore leave and commits a crime in Telamon must be extradited back to court system where they are being charged with a crime. We can't let their citizens break the law and then just run back to their base to avoid prosecution. For the issue of compensation, the Jewish Defense League would want the Federation of Zardugal to make an annual payment for the lease including a primary bonus for the deal. We would also want all construction and building to be done with Telamon contractors and Telamon citizens. This would create a great opportunity for new jobs and revenue. All materials must also be bought from Telamon suppliers. Electricity and water works would also have to be supplied by Telamon, and purchased by the Federation of Zardugal. We would not want the Federation of Zardugal to bring Oil tankers in to the base. All natural gases and oil must be purchased from Telamon. Manual labor for the base can be open to citizens of the Federation of Zardugal, but we would insist on them hiring Telamon citizens. This base could bring in great revenue for Telamon. There will be hundreds of Jobs made and this will create a lot of business. The Federation of Zardugal ships would increase security. By letting them have a Naval base we would be making Telamon a stronger place. Barry Cohen Co-Chair Jewish Defense League |
| Date | 22:29:41, May 30, 2009 CET | From | Telamon Science Party | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | I agree entirely with the opinion of Mr. Cohen of the Jewish Defense League. I believe this could result in a badly needed stimulus to the economy. |
| Date | 01:12:42, May 31, 2009 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | Just as a point of information to Mr. Cohen, please bear in mind as you make your budget criticisms that 1 TPD is worth nearly 8 Zardugals. To convert Zardugal's defense budget into TPD would actually be closer 128 billion TPD. This is to be expected from a nation as militarily active as Zardugal as compared to a nation such as Telamon which has not been in so much as a military conflict for centuries. Telamon's defense demands are little more than research and development and a modest defense force. Jonathan Hughes Finance Republic of Telamon |
| Date | 02:11:33, May 31, 2009 CET | From | Executive Intelligence Network | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | We disagree. We believe that allowing the Federation of Zardugal to use our ports is a mistake of the gravest degree. As was stated in Mr. Dalton's comments above, it is obvious that the FZ is making this request for strategic purposes. And, as Mr. Cohen has pointed out (with the help of Mr. Hughes), the FZ's defence budget is more than 9 times that of our own defence forces. As such, inviting the wolves (to use Mr. Cohen's metaphor) may be exactly what we are doing, especially if we actually give them land, as Mr. Cohen suggests. Also, we do not believe that any stimulus is needed as we still have a surplus in excess of 2 billion TPD. In the end, we must make it clear that we do not find it acceptable for us to, under any conditions, allow the Federation of Zardugal to dock naval vessels in Telamonian ports. Michael Princenthal Director Frederic Anders Minister of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Director of Foreign Affairs H.B. Harry Minister of Defence, Deputy Director of Defence Penny Pennywise Deputy Director of Commerce |
| Date | 07:57:12, May 31, 2009 CET | From | Telamon Labor Party | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | We agree with Mr. Princenthal that we are currently in a great economic time for Telamon, but that we think that this would be a great advantage for Telamon. While we do have a surplus, there is still vast unemployment in Telamon. In Lirona there is 5.97% unemployment, in Ferene there is 7.19% unemployment, in Midagon there is 7.74% unemployment, in Sevescia there is 8.48% unemployment, and in Antepec there is 9.36% unemployment. That means that there are currently 26,215,230 people living in Telamon who are of the workforce age who do not have jobs. We think that a government works program that could employ thousands of people and bring new money into Telamon would be greatly needed. The issue of our security is one that can only be reached on whether or not we feel that we can trust them after beginning negotiations. Barry Cohen Co-Chair Jewish Defense League |
| Date | 21:05:18, May 31, 2009 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | The official position of the Democratic Capitalist Delegation on this matter is that this deal could threaten Telamon's status as a peace faring and militarily uninterested nation. That is why we believe if this offer is accepted, it will need to be made absolutely clear to the Federation of Zardugal that our ports will also be made open to any other nation which requests to use them, regardless of their diplomatic standing with Zardugal, as well as that absolutely no military actions be executed in Telamonian national waters. Of course, in the event of an attack on a Telamonian port, any Zardugalese ships docked there should be required to participate in its defense, but that goes nearly without saying. Seeing as Zardugal IS in fact a world military power, it will be required of us to increase our scientific research spending as well as our defense spending substantially so that we have the means to enforce these stipulations if need be. In order to meet the necessary budget increase, tax hikes may be necessary. Although the DCD is fundamentally opposed to any tax increase, we recognize that in this situation it may become necessary. Should we pursue this scenario however, we are confident Minister Hughes will do as much reallocating funds as possible in order to minimize or completely avoid such a measure. Should we follow through on this deal, we should demand a compensation of 10,000,000 TPD (78,261,000 ZAR) annually for every military vessel which was based out of a Telamonian port for one or more months and an additional 500,000 TPD (3,913,050 ZAR) for every instance in which a Zardugalese military vessel not based out of a Telamonian port resupplies there. Although this is the ideal proposal the party has drafted, reverting back to the official party position, we believe that accepting this offer would be of a particularly dangerous nature to Telamon's diplomatic standing internationally, and would be perceived by many nations as definitively taking sides. The above proposal would be our belief only in the event that we DO in fact allow the Federation of Zardugal to dock ships in our ports. The DCD does not however think that would be a prudent choice for our nation at this time. Michael Garrish Class I Official Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
| Date | 21:11:19, May 31, 2009 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | It should be noted that a non-aggression pact between Zardugal and Telamon could be drafted into the agreement. It is the firm opinion of the Prime Ministry that the Federation of Zardugal has no aspirations to militarily compromise Telamon in any way, in fact, we believe that the Federation of Zardugal desires friendship with Telamon, and we could utilize this opportunity to garner some level of military protection in the form of the Zardugalese Navy. Drake Dalton Prime Minister Republic of Telamon |
| Date | 00:49:03, June 01, 2009 CET | From | Telamon Science Party | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | We agree that a non-aggression pact be included in any agreement with the Federation of Zardugal. Despite a surplus in the Telamon treasury, the Telamon Science Party is concerned seriously about the severe unemployment rates within the country. A carefully crafted agreement with Zardugal, which preserves the independence and homeland security of Telamon, could be of substantial economic and humanitarian benefit to the country. This is a situation where our leaders need to assume the responsibilities of statesmanship in forging an agreement that will favorably advance the Telamon society. Robert Millikan Chairman Telamon Science Party |
| Date | 23:43:32, June 14, 2009 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Offer from the Federation of Zardugal |
| Message | Note to Pariament: I will feel comfortable in proceeding with this proposal only if this resolution passes with a 2/3rds majority. Drake Dalton Prime Minister Republic of Telamon |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 192 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 42 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 267 |
| Random fact: The grey space in the east is populated by the forum-based countries, known in-game as the former colonies or the "Third World". These countries are managed by the Third World Coordinator but players can request control of individual countries in the Third World Control Requests thread: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8302 |
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