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Bill: Talmorian Civil War Resolution
Details
Submitted by[?]: Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes to change the allocation of funds in the budget. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2784
Description[?]:
| Upon passing of this bill, the Imperial Crownlands of Greater Hulstria shall form an emergency, special task force comprised of soldiers from our general army and air corp to assist the Holy Luthori Empire in stablizing the civil-war ridden country of Talmoria. Hulstria will also recognize the right to Luthori conducting operations in Talmoria on Dovani. The Imperial Crownlands of Greater Hulstria, in return for helping Luthori, will be given 3 territories in the South-West territories as compensation for our crown being overthrown in the 2760s. Link: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=9290#p9290 |
Proposals
Article 1
| Ministry | Current Budget | Old Budget | Propesed Budget |
| Head of Government | 2,000,000,000 HCR | 80,000 HCR | 80,000 HCR |
| Foreign Affairs | 12,500,000,000 HCR | 500,000,000 HCR | 500,000,000 HCR |
| Internal Affairs | 35,000,000,000 HCR | 165,000,000,000 HCR | 165,000,000,000 HCR |
| Finance | 10,000,000,000 HCR | 1,000,000,000 HCR | 1,000,000,000 HCR |
| Defence | 80,000,000,000 HCR | 90,000,000,000 HCR | 90,000,000,000 HCR |
| Justice | 12,500,000,000 HCR | 70,000,000,000 HCR | 70,000,000,000 HCR |
| Infrastructure and Transport | 35,000,000,000 HCR | 175,000,000,000 HCR | 175,000,000,000 HCR |
| Health and Social Services | 50,000,000,000 HCR | 185,000,000,000 HCR | 185,000,000,000 HCR |
| Education and Culture | 40,000,000,000 HCR | 395,000,000,000 HCR | 395,000,000,000 HCR |
| Science and Technology | 25,000,000,000 HCR | 52,000,000,000 HCR | 52,000,000,000 HCR |
| Food and Agriculture | 15,000,000,000 HCR | 57,000,000,000 HCR | 57,000,000,000 HCR |
| Environment and Tourism | 15,000,000,000 HCR | 18,000,000,000 HCR | 18,000,000,000 HCR |
| Trade and Industry | 25,000,000,000 HCR | 34,000,000,000 HCR | 34,000,000,000 HCR |
| Total | 357,000,000,000 HCR | 1,242,500,080,000 HCR | 1,242,500,080,000 HCR |
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:40:27, July 08, 2009 CET | From |  Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | Both IC/OOC: This is a pretty closed RP. Only Luthori and Hulstria are getting involved in this and I do believe any further countries will try to join in. Since Luthori and Hulstria are working together, we are not going to compete over colonies despite the "winner takes all" provision that Jessy of Talmoria put out. I worked it with Luthori officials that Hulstria will assist Luthori, recognize their protectorate and colonies, and in return will get three territories out of the Talmorian South-West Empire. Luthori was very respectable and friendly when I got in contact with them; this is a perfect opptorunity the CIL of Luthori pointed out to me to restart/revive relations and to start new business between our two monarchies. Now I know some of us here are isolationist and anti-imperialist but let me explain something; Talmoria and her colonies used to be in union with Hulstria. We had the Liberal Fascist Party keep power for us down there but as some of us know he kind of went a bit crazy with power, sparked up a resistance movement, and left for no reason. This is a good chance for Hulstria to reclaim some of her lost colonies without having to go through a massive world war; there is no actual RP opponent/player to Hulstria and Luthori, it is going to be a cakewalk. We will be restoring order in Talmoria, that is it. If this passes, I will RP Hulstria's special operational force until 2784 if no one else wants to or can't because of their IC stance (isolationist). In summary; we help Luthori in this minor RP, revive the relationship between our two countries on top of Hulstria getting 3 territories in return for supporting Luthori. The budget is included to just make sure that when this gets a majority, it will pass automatically. If this was a regular bill, by the time this passed it would be into next year and the RP would be over. There is no major risk involved in this, I stress parties to vote in favor. |
| Date | 19:29:33, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | I'm in. |
| Date | 20:20:00, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Liberaldemokratische Allianz | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | No. While no nation has more of our respect than Luthori, their presence in Dovani would be a step backward and would be an invitation to further conflict from other Dovani nations. |
| Date | 20:23:12, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Kolonial Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | Why is the business of Luthori and Talmoria the business of Hulstria? |
| Date | 20:31:50, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | The threat to security in Talmoria is a threat to the security of our entire continent. We must intervene to prevent the complete collapse of law and order |
| Date | 20:35:21, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Liberaldemokratische Allianz | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | Hulstria may be in a position to intervene, but we cannot do so jointly with Luthori. |
| Date | 20:42:16, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | And why not? What benefit would we given by abandoning the people of Talmoria and not helping our friends on this noble mission? |
| Date | 21:00:12, July 08, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | *benifit would we have... |
| Date | 04:31:02, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Leutes Kommunistische Liga | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | We'll go with this. |
| Date | 05:24:15, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Kolonial Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | What threat is there to Hulstria that the potential new government in Talmoria may have? If we're friendly to both, there won't be much of a problem. |
| Date | 05:35:50, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Liberaldemokratische Allianz | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | Hulstria gains nothing from this. We'll have to fight a war, expending treasure and lives, for territory that has never been part of the Imperial Crownlands. The Talmorian territories were never in union with Hulstria, they were a separate realm under the House of Rothingren-Traugott. The Talmorian legislature of the time never gave any Hulstrian organ, the Imperial Diet or the head of the House of Rothingren-Traugott acting as Emperor of Hulstria, the ability to claim authority over those territories. The CLA expressly made such communication with the Liberal Fascist Party and they failed to act. In the process of interfering in this civil war, we will needlessly interject ourselves into the long-standing instability that is Talmoria. The only nation that comes out ahead in this exchange is Luthori, and it is not in our interest to advance their interests. |
| Date | 05:42:09, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | OOC: I just want to remind everyone of the Rildanor Accord of International Conflict Regulation (i.e. game rules on conduct of war) for those who do not know. a)i)"A Nation's Army can only be deployed by a 50% majority proposal, including the support of the Minister of Defence, the Minister for Foreign Relations to permit their declaration of and spending for war, as well as the HoG's approval and HoS's approval if they are elected." ii)"If the HoS is hereditary and is as such not attached to a party, the Nation's Army can only be deployed by a 50% majority proposal, including the support of the Minister of Defence, the Minister of Foreign Relations to permit their declaration of and spending for war, as well as the HoG's approval." iii)"An army that meets these conditions but without the HoS's support, if the HoS is democratically elected, can be used for a coup d'etat alone, to fight the militias of the parties opposing the motion. No reservists can be called." b)"Under these conditions, the parties who voted to put the army to fight must agree on the proportion dispatched and the mission and actions of the deployed soldiers." c)"Failure to achieve the passing of this proposal will keep the nation's army undeployed." d)"A similar bill to the deployment must be passed for the withdrawal of the nation's army." Link to the Rildanor Accords Forum Page http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40 |
| Date | 16:47:55, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | OOC: Looks like we got lucky by failing to intervene |
| Date | 21:06:33, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | When the Liberal Fascist Party got Talmoria, they got her Colonies as well. Talmorian colonies were held by Hulstria. I believe people are looking away too into this; Jessy is not going to RP anything. Hulstria and Luthori will not have to fight anyone. This is a walk in the park. |
| Date | 22:07:36, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | ooc: It seem as if Socialist Party. I put this up before I looked on the forums (blame six flags and the damn torando ride). I'm going to be talking to Luthori officials on this one; Jessy seems to have turned this whole RP on its head, it was supposed to be an effortless RP, and now everyone is left uterly confused. I mean, how can 4 paramilitaries who "are on their deathbed" defeat Luthori in a matter of 4 months without an RP post to back it up? Very confusing. I ask parties to abstain and let the bill die out. |
| Date | 22:56:06, July 09, 2009 CET | From | Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | The RP is dead now. So much for nothing. Oh well. |
| Date | 01:30:54, July 10, 2009 CET | From | Liberaldemokratische Allianz | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | OOC: Any RP involving Jessaveryja is a bad idea; they shouldn't be touched with a 10 yard pole. |
| Date | 02:55:47, July 10, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | OOC: It probably would have been a good idea to mention that a little earlier. |
| Date | 03:34:28, July 10, 2009 CET | From | Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | ooc: it clearly stated the talmorian military would be disbanded, thus rendering jessy unable to RP. He didn't consent with anyone and as you can see right out in the blue, made up the rules as he went along, and made this perfectly good RP opportunity into crap. However, like I said, it looks to be dead. Nonetheless I'm still seeking to revive relations between Hulstria and Luthori, I didn't get involved just for those territories. |
| Date | 03:45:33, July 10, 2009 CET | From | Socialist Party of Greater Hulstria | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | How would you like to improve relations? |
| Date | 05:41:29, July 10, 2009 CET | From | Konstitutionelle Monarchie Partei | To | Debating the Talmorian Civil War Resolution |
| Message | To get treaties like the Commonwealth Nations of Terra Alliance to actually mean something. An exclusive economic pact like what we have with Vorona is another idea I have. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 127 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 382 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 216 |
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